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Subject: Presidential VP's rss

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After watching John Adams for the last week or so. I found it interesting that we used to select Vice Presidents by who came in 2nd place.

After a lot of thought, I think I like that idea. Depoliticize things a "little" if the president is the winner of the vote, but the people still get a tie-breaker vote in the senate from the loser.

I don't know, I kind of like the idea. Of course this may bring the president-shooting nutbags out in force.

But I like the fact the all people are represented even if their candidate wasn't elected.
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Shushnik wrote:


President shooting nutbags...where were they when we've needed them for the last eight years.


Cheney.
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I don't know about you guys, but I'm doing well with the solo nutbag. But maybe I've lost the context of this conversation.
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Verkisto wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I'm doing well with the solo nutbag. But maybe I've lost the context of this conversation.
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Oh, yes, in a two party system this would REALLY give voters control.devil

MWChapel wrote:
After watching John Adams for the last week or so. I found it interesting that we used to select Vice Presidents by who came in 2nd place.

After a lot of thought, I think I like that idea. Depoliticize things a "little" if the president is the winner of the vote, but the people still get a tie-breaker vote in the senate from the loser.

I don't know, I kind of like the idea. Of course this may bring the president-shooting nutbags out in force.

But I like the fact the all people are represented even if their candidate wasn't elected.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Okay, who saw VPs in the header and immediately thought "Victory Points."
And don't forget that for presidential victory points, money is the tie-breaker!
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Shushnik wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
After watching John Adams for the last week or so. I found it interesting that we used to select Vice Presidents by who came in 2nd place.

After a lot of thought, I think I like that idea. Depoliticize things a "little" if the president is the winner of the vote, but the people still get a tie-breaker vote in the senate from the loser.

I don't know, I kind of like the idea. Of course this may bring the president-shooting nutbags out in force.

But I like the fact the all people are represented even if their candidate wasn't elected.


President shooting nutbags...where were they when we've needed them for the last eight years.


You earned a heart felt BOO from me. Most unfunny.
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MWChapel wrote:
After watching John Adams for the last week or so. I found it interesting that we used to select Vice Presidents by who came in 2nd place.

After a lot of thought, I think I like that idea. Depoliticize things a "little" if the president is the winner of the vote, but the people still get a tie-breaker vote in the senate from the loser.

I don't know, I kind of like the idea. Of course this may bring the president-shooting nutbags out in force.

But I like the fact the all people are represented even if their candidate wasn't elected.


The problem wouldn't be the assassins. The secret service is pretty good. The problem would be the political subterfuge. That is what killed the system before. It was naive and idealistic for the founders to think that people would or could always rise above partisanship. If the president and vice president are to work together at all, they have to reasonably trust each other that they won't stab each other in the back. The old system just would not work.
 
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Shushnik wrote:
Wrayman wrote:
Shushnik wrote:

President shooting nutbags...where were they when we've needed them for the last eight years.


You earned a heart felt BOO from me. Most unfunny.


Funny?


I am unwilling to believe that you are serious. If you are, you are much worse than unfunny.
 
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Shushnik wrote:
Make what judgements about me that you see fit. I believe in assassination when it saves over a million lives. I fail to see a distinction between justified military preaction against a country and justified military preaction against a cowboy polititian. Preemptive war cuts both ways.


I'll bite. I don't have anything better to do right this minute. You are clearly intimating violence against your president. Either you are serious, in which case you should be locked up or you are impotently complaining in which case you need to do something constructive with you energy. That is my judgment, not of you but of what you have said.
 
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Shushnik wrote:
I should be locked up for saying what I believe? That's really what you're advocating?


If you believe in doing the president harm, yes absolutely. I still believe you are just using hyperbole though. thumbsdown
 
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Hypothetically speaking...

Did you know that the closest that Hitler ever came to getting whacked was in 1938?

Clockmaker, acting alone, no conspiracy, rigged up a bomb in one of the pillars of the 'Bierkeller' in Munich that was the old haunt of the early NSDAP. If it weren't for the fact that Hitler finished his speech 10 minutes early, he would have been blown to bits.

NOW- this is BEFORE the Final Solution, WWII, heck, the worst he'd done was to criminalize the Socialist Party, put his political enemies into concentration camps, remilitarize the Rhineland and try to reduce the power of the Catholic Church in Germany. For much of this, he had considerable public support.

From documents discovered after the war, the assasin was totally apolitical- he did this out of a revulsion to what he saw Hitler as- a demogogue, unchecked by any power in Germany, leading a near religious style political party that was treading dangerously close to war in Europe. For many in Germany, however, Hitler was the honest man, doing the dirty buisness of 'politics' in a desperate attempt to create a 'New' Germany that would take its rightful place in the world of Power politics, culture, and military strength. If there were some hurt along the way, well, that was ok- it was either for the 'greater good', or just the work of Party flunkys....If only Hitler knew, he would fix it and make it right.

So- was the assasin a lone lunatic, or farsighted visionary trying to do the world a favor?

For many, many, MANY in Germany, in 1938, the answer was a). The guy was 'clearly' a lunatic.

Their minds started to change in 1944.....

Context, context, context.

Darilian
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Shushnik wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
I believe in assassination when it saves over a million lives. I fail to see a distinction between justified military preaction against a country and justified military preaction against a cowboy polititian. Preemptive war cuts both ways.


You haven't been writing to Jodie Foster, have you?


I'm afraid I don't know what Jodie Foster has to do with the cost of apples. Never did understand why anyone listens to hollywood concerning politics on any side of any issue. Michael Stipe needed a boot in the ass when he had a tee-shirt per MTV award a decade back. Or better, a boot in the ass per shirt.


Hinkley Jr. was writing Jodie Foster before he attempted to assasinate Reagan. He thought the attempt would get her attention.

As for being locked up, it is treason to advocate assasination of the president.
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Shushnik wrote:
steinley wrote:
As for being locked up, it is treason to advocate assasination of the president.


U.S. Constitution wrote:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.


Actually, its not treason.

What it is conspiracy.

Which is a felony.

And the Secret Service takes these things very seriously.

True story....

Have a good friend of mine, who I'll keep nameless because he's working in a related field and I don't want him to get into trouble, who told me this story over a few pints one night. Maybe its true, maybe he was pulling my leg, but there you have it. 'I' believe my friend.

Anyway, he worked for the Metropolitan Police in London, as part of their counter-terrorism unit. When Pres. Bush went and visited London, a local crazy had written a letter to the US Embassy saying that he was going to assasinate Pres. Bush.

Now, my friend was working liason with the Secret Service. He tells them, "Hey, we know this guy, he's a harmless crank, lets just go and visit him and suss him out for your satisfaction.".

No answer from the Secret Service. Then, one day, my friend gets a call from his Super. "The Secret Service has gone to the suspects home, I need you there."

My friend goes there, and the Secret Service has BROKEN IN THE DOOR of the suspects house, and has started to wire up this UK NATIONAL to a lie dectector. All of this with no writ, much less a warrant.

They put the machine on the guy, find out he's a harmless crank, let him go. And the London Police were FURIOUS. If the press had found out, or the guy had leveled charges, it would have been a public relations nightmare.

Anyway, thats the story.

Darilian
 
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Shushnik wrote:
Yes, I believe someone should have assassinated the president years ago.

It is my right and freedom to believe and say as much. I'm suprised that you would disagree with that. I guess the bill of rights truly is in more danger than I had thought.

Anyway, I've hijacked this topic enough. Sorry 'bout that.


I agree about hijacking the thread. This is just to rich to leave alone though.

You really misunderstand the bill of rights.

You are free to say what you like, as am I.

Advocating violence is not free speech.

The bill of rights is quite safe.

I am surprised that you are surprised that I would take exception to you advocating assassination of the president.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Hypothetically speaking...

Did you know that the closest that Hitler ever came to getting whacked was in 1938?

Clockmaker, acting alone, no conspiracy, rigged up a bomb in one of the pillars of the 'Bierkeller' in Munich that was the old haunt of the early NSDAP. If it weren't for the fact that Hitler finished his speech 10 minutes early, he would have been blown to bits.


But I'm pretty sure there was a conspiracy. It's why Dietrich Bonhoeffer went to prison after all.


No, Bonhoeffer was arrested for 1) his battles with the NSDAP during the "Church Struggle" and 2) his involvement in the Abwehr Military intelligence plot to assasinate Hitler.

This guy, whose name compeltely escapes me and I'll have to look up the details when I get home, was not connected with any of the other groups. He literally acted alone- and got a LOT closer to success than any of the others. He's also acted WAAY earlier than anyone else.

Darilian
(I'll edit this when I have to chance to check some sources- its a great story).
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Shushnik wrote:
steinley wrote:
As for being locked up, it is treason to advocate assasination of the president.


U.S. Constitution wrote:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.


The framers of the constitution intentionally left off "High Treason" (i.e., assassination of the king or conspiracy to assissinate the king) as not to prevent peaceful demonstrations and discord.

Treason is in Code 18, Chapter 115 -- Treason, Sedition, and Subversive Activities. The exact subheading is in statute 2381.

The assassination clause falls in a neighboring statute-- 2385, "Advocating Overthrow of the Governement", to quote:

Quote:
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
 
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Here in the UK you can't have a conspiracy of one person...

One person can incite, though.
 
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Wrayman wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
I should be locked up for saying what I believe? That's really what you're advocating?


If you believe in doing the president harm, yes absolutely. I still believe you are just using hyperbole though. thumbsdown


Clearly you are living in a fantasy. There are many people I know that were disappointed that Vladimir Arutyunian was not successful. I don't wish the guy dead, but if he was killed or keeled over in any way I wouldn't shed a tear. Chances are I'd be attending a party that weekend.

We went out for drinks when Regan died.
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sisteray wrote:

We went out for drinks when Reagan died.


An Irish wake?
 
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sisteray wrote:
Clearly you are living in a fantasy. There are many people I know that were disappointed that Vladimir Arutyunian was not successful.

I'm very glad that he wasn't successful; violence is always terrible, and assassinations only bolster support for the newly martyred victim.

I do wish the president would eat more pretzels, though...

"Mmm... Pretzels... Are you sure you don't want one?"

All kidding aside (and I am most certainly being darkly sardonic... mostly...), I dunno why folks wish death for leaders. Either they're a figurehead, and nothing changes in their wake but the name on the desk, or they're charismatic and popular, and it just increases their mystique.
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Practically speaking I also think wishing a politician simply to retire or resign is more likely to be wishing for an effective way to get policies one does not like changed.

Holmes! wrote:
sisteray wrote:
Clearly you are living in a fantasy. There are many people I know that were disappointed that Vladimir Arutyunian was not successful.

I'm very glad that he wasn't successful; violence is always terrible, and assassinations only bolster support for the newly martyred victim.

I do wish the president would eat more pretzels, though...

"Mmm... Pretzels... Are you sure you don't want one?"

All kidding aside (and I am most certainly being darkly sardonic... mostly...), I dunno why folks wish death for leaders. Either they're a figurehead, and nothing changes in their wake but the name on the desk, or they're charismatic and popular, and it just increases their mystique.
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GAWD wrote:
Holmes! wrote:
All kidding aside (and I am most certainly being darkly sardonic... mostly...), I dunno why folks wish death for leaders.


B/c sometimes folks feel like there's no other way to stop being ruled by someone whom they think shouldn't be ruling them.

OK, I guess yeah, I understand why. I just wish, then, that they could think out the chain of events that'll unfold beyond the first step.
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Shushnik wrote:
Yes, I believe someone should have assassinated the president years ago.

It is my right and freedom to believe and say as much. I'm suprised that you would disagree with that. I guess the bill of rights truly is in more danger than I had thought.

Anyway, I've hijacked this topic enough. Sorry 'bout that.


God I hope you get "Grich" as a cellmate. He likes them young and tender.
 
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It is difficult for me to believe that on this forum we actually have some BGG's advocating for the death of another human being. I hated having Bill Clinton as our president - he was shameful and embarrassing. At the same time, he was our president, and as such, I would refer to him as "Mister President." I do the same with our current president, who I voted for and admire much, (and I don't really give a rat's behind what anyone might say to that.)

I think that people who are so far left they can't distinguish their a$$ from a hole in the ground to those who are so far right they think China is in their own time zone really need a reality check here.

Get a grip on this forum! What really is important in your life?! We have the type of government we deserve! It's ours! It doesn't matter if the left or right voted them in! If Obama wins for four years we'll probably have another dozen years of Republican domination. Good God, the Democrats have nominated another Jimmy Carter!

If McCain wins, the Dems will probably get another four to eight years of Bill Clinton.

Get a grip, really!
 
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