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Agricola» Forums » Rules

Subject: Minor Improvement to a Major Improvement? rss

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Corin A. Friesen
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The Cooking Hearth Major Improvement says "Return Fireplace OR pay 4 clay". I had the Simple Fireplace Minor Improvement, and I wondered whether I could return the Simple Fireplace for the Cooking Hearth when I take a "1 Major Improvement" action.

I take this to mean yes. Correct?
 
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David Fair
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Or maybe PowerGrid?
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Yes, that is legal. The Simple Fireplace is discarded at that point.
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Corin A. Friesen
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BeyondMonopoly wrote:
Yes, that is legal. The Simple Fireplace is discarded at that point.

Good, that's how I've been playing.

I did not want to go back to my opponents and say "All those games weren't legal!" shake
 
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Bowie
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Fireplace is not discarded, you just RETURN it to the Major Improvements board.
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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juanjoroig wrote:
Fireplace is not discarded, you just RETURN it to the Major Improvements board.

The Simple Fireplace is a Minor Improvement, and therefore is not returned to the Major Improvements board. Because it is not a Major Improvement. But a Minor.

It's discarded when upgraded.
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James
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I'm cool with all these interpretations of this rule, but where is everyone getting this from?
 
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Eugene van der Pijll
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watcher_b wrote:
I'm cool with all these interpretations of this rule, but where is everyone getting this from?

Possible sources in this case: common sense (a simple fireplace is a fireplace, after all), or the Lookout Games forum ([http://forum.lookout-games.de/index.php?topic=683).

If you don't trust your own common sense, and can't read German, I've collected a few of these interpretations in a document that you can now download from the Files section (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/34558).

EDIT: Also, this question had already been answered here on the geek (http://www.boardgamegeeks.com/thread/330152).
 
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Bowie
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Ouch! Sorry! I understood he was talking about the fireplace in the Major improvements board.
 
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Jon W
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watcher_b wrote:
I'm cool with all these interpretations of this rule, but where is everyone getting this from?

This was the first question I tried to use the appendix to answer, but it wasn't to be found. I actually came to the opposite conclusion, as the example/clarification in the rules specifically references "Fireplace."

But so it goes, there are a lot of cards. I just think it's kind of funny that this one went south on me, and there are a few references in the appendix that change my interpretation of cards I thought were unambiguous. I think it would have been best for any card with an appendix "ruling" to have a tiny asterisk or graphic somewhere on it. Of course, this wouldn't have worked for this card, anyway....
 
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Kevin Bracey
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pijll wrote:
common sense (a simple fireplace is a fireplace, after all)


Common sense? I agree that a "simple fireplace" is a fireplace, but in this case the card demands a Fireplace. Is a "Simple Fireplace" a "Fireplace"? I'd say no, if not for the fact that there's been an official ruling. The capital letters make all the difference - given a card with the title "Fireplace", and another card specifying the "Fireplace", in capitals, it's natural to assume that the requirement is specifically for the card titled "Fireplace".

And again, on common sense, if I demand to see the Director, and I'm presented with the Assistant Director, would it be churlish of me to complain - should I be mollified with the explanation that the Assistant Director is a Director? I guess it would all be down to whether I asked to see "a Director" or "the Director". And the Cooking Hearth doesn't specify - it says "Return Fireplace"; the absence of an article implies "the".

It would help if the Cooking Hearth had its requirement rephrased to match the Baker's Kitchen, which says "Return 1 Oven of your choice". It should say "Return 1 Fireplace of your choice". Or just "Return a Fireplace" would help.

I can't help but have the feeling that the "Simple Fireplace" was invented some time after the "Fireplace" and "Cooking Hearth", and it wasn't appreciated that this left the wording on Cooking Hearth unclear, with "Fireplace" having changed from being a card title to also being a category of cards.

This issue is my number one candidate to be added to the card appendix...
 
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Branko K.
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So.. if you wanted to see a Director, you wouldn't be satisfied with a Simple Director?

 
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