Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Descent: The Road to Legend» Forums » Variants

Subject: [Poll]: how many "points" is each monster worth? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hey guys,

Myself and a collaborator are trying to come up with a system for allowing the OL to populate the various dungeon levels without sticking to what is printed in the dungeon guide, primarily so that even expansion monsters can be used (and mixed) when previously there were none.

So to this end we are developing a "points" system for the monsters, with the OL having a certain amount of points to spend to populate the dungeon level. So, operating on the idea that a normal Kobold is the weakest monster and worth 1 point, how much do you think the other monsters should be worth? Try to stay objective and think about completely non-upgraded monsters.

Poll: How many "points" is each monster worth?
How many "points" is each monster worth?
  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Master Kobold
Bane Spider
Master Bane Spider
Hell Hound
Master Hell Hound
Skeleton
Master Skeleton
Beastman
Master Beastman
Dark Priest
Master Dark Priest
Deep Elf
Master Deep Elf
Ferrox
Master Ferrox
Naga
Master Naga
Razorwing
Master Razorwing
Sorcerer
Master Sorcerer
Blood Ape
Master Blood Ape
Manticore
Master Manticore
Golem
Master Golem
Ogre
Master Ogre
Troll
Master Troll
Chaos Beast
Master Chaos Beast
Demon
Master Demon
Dragon
Master Dragon
Giant
Master Giant
      12 answers
Poll created by bleached_lizard
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tokelau
Alaska
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's my general idea:

Tier 0 which I rated at 1 point:
Kobolds set the standard at 1 point

Then we have tier 1 which I rated at 2 points:
skeletons, razorwings, beastmen, ferrox bane spiders, sorcerers, hell hound

Then tier 2 which is rated at 3 points:
master skeletons,master razorwings, master beastmen, master hellhound

Then tier 3 would be mid level monsters worth 4 points:
manticore, naga, deep elf, dark priest ogre, blood ape

Tier 4 is worth 5 points:
master manticore, master naga, master deep elf, master dark priest, master blood ape

Tier 5 is worth 6 points:
Troll, golem, chaos beast, dragon, giant,

Tier 6 is worth 7 points:
master troll golem chaos beast, dragon, giant



After writing that down, I already see problems.

I think trolls need their own point category, cheaper than dragon, demon,but more than chaos beast and golem

I may need to give bane spider it's own tier, maybe tier 1.5.


I think I need to redo this and spread the points out more and re-evaluate some of the creates. This is all off the top of my head while at work.



Revised tier scale --------------------------------------------

Tier 0 (1 point)
kobold

Tier 1 (2 points)
master kobold, Bane Spider

Tier 2 (3 points)
Master Bane spider, skeleton, beastman, ferrox, razorwing, sorceror,hell hound

Tier 3 (4 points)
master skeleton, master beastman, master ferrox, master razorwing, master sorceror, master hellhound

Tier 4 (5 points)
Ogre, naga, manticore, deep elf, dark priest, blood ape

Tier 5 (6 points)
master ogre, master naga, master manticore, master deep elf, master dark priest, master blood ape

Tier 6 (7 points)
Golem

Tier 7 (8 points)
Troll, Master Golem

Tier 8 (9 points)
Master Troll, Chaos Beast, Giant

Tier 9 (10 points)
Master Chaos Beast, Master Giant, Dragon, Demon

Tier 10 (11 points)
Master Dragon, Master Demon


I think this is better. But the more you try to balance it, the more complicated it gets. I think the demon is the best of all monsters. I guess the dragon has breath, so maybe some would pick the dragon over demon in some instances.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I like this ordering - it seems about "right". Did you take into account though the relative costs of each monster? i.e, do you think that a dragon (10 points) really is worth the same as two manticores?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nicklas Roman
Sweden
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It's ALL about relative costs.

How many beastmen for a Master giant?

How many skeletons for a Master Demon?

It can't be too cheap to buy the road blocks, and yet you don't want them to be so costly that it just never is efficent to get them.

Taking a big creature with lots of health and a good dose of damage should really be costly. To make this work all the basic mosters have to cost 2.

And how to grade masters?
Is a skeleton master worth 2 regular ones?
Defeinetly to me, as it has undying. Certain skills should be very expensive to bring in, firstly Black Curse must cost a lot! Secondly undying on a large creature (ogre master) can be the ultimate pain, and has to be expensive.

Certain masters gain little (blood apes? Kill it properly the first time!)

Command must also be very expensive so that not every level is filled with double (or worse!) stacked command.

Most basic monster masters should cost 4.
Sorc and beastman masters 5.

Let's see more discussion, and where this poll goes.

Interesting work, though very hard to balaance out...you might end up with -less- variation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David desJardins
United States
Burlingame
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
spelledaren wrote:
Interesting work, though very hard to balaance out...you might end up with -less- variation.


Certainly it's essential that you don't give the overlord complete freedom. Any points system has to be applied within some context where the overlord still has to choose from a limited set of choices for that particular dungeon. So they don't all just end up looking the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris J Davis
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Overtext pending moderation...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is already being worked into it. Each dungeon level will have:

* A very small basic set of monsters that *must* appear in the level (i.e, 2 Beastmen).

* An amount of points divided between the three monster categories for the OL to spend (i.e, Humanoid 3, Beast 5, Eldritch 4).

* Possibly an amount of "generic" points that the OL can spend in any category.

* Also possibly discounts on certain types of monsters for that level (e.g, Sorcerers cost -1 for this level).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ger Lam
Austria
flag msg tools
mbmb
i am shocked, shocked!
that tibbs2 put master naga into tier 5, along with master dark priests...below a golem

anyway, aside from the nice threat input and consistently high damage output of master dark priests, who are not the topic here:

master naga's for me, are situationally up there with master demons and dragons(well, a little behind since they don't invoke fear, but hey)...

with their dice, sorcery, and commando, they have potentially the highest damage output(well, aside from some lucky troll combo's, maybe?), and especially the commando also helps the minions around them-... i am not saying they should be WAY up there as it's very situational, but in-dungeon, soaring/flying is worth nothing, so depending on the situation, the other load-out, and the dungeon layout, i may choose a master naga even over a master dragon...(not over a master demon though, i guess...)

aside from that, great work...(i saw the current version of the finished work-)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.