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Subject: Poll: Obama or McCain rss

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Have faith
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Poll: For US citizens:
Who will probably get your vote for US president?
McCain
Obama
Someone else on the ballot
No one on the ballot/I probably won't vote
Undecided
      129 answers
Poll created by cull


For people who are not US citizens:
Poll
Who do you think should be US president?
McCain
Obama
Someone else on the ballot
No one on the ballot/I probably wouldn't vote
Undecided
      42 answers
Poll created by cull


 
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Marc P
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Undecided between Obama and Nader.
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Darren M
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Ron Paul.
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Rob
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Magdar.
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For non us citizens like me, the two questions
who should be president/who would get your vote
are very different.
 
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William Boykin
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1). I don't think that non-US citizens should really be part of the poll. I mean, post if you want, but this is kind of an internal matter, thankyouverymuch.

Frankly, as much as I love Germany, Italy, Japan, and all the rest of the world, the choice for the next US President is an AMERICAN choice. How our choice is viewed by the rest of the world, for me, is at best a SECONDARY criteria. I'm concerned with our choice affects US, first and foremost. Just as Germans choose what is best for Germany, French for France, etc.

Its not like you saw tons of posts by Americans about Angela Merkle vs. Schroeder, after all.......!

2). The ONLY exception to that rule is Pottsylvania. Pottsylvanians are FREE to vote for Boris/Natasha in 2008. Death to Moose and Squirrel!

Darilian
Vote Boris in 2008! Because Fearless Leader TOLD you so.
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Darilian wrote:
1). I don't think that non-US citizens should really be part of the poll. I mean, post if you want, but this is kind of an internal matter, thankyouverymuch.

Frankly, as much as I love Germany, Italy, Japan, and all the rest of the world, the choice for the next US President is an AMERICAN choice. How our choice is viewed by the rest of the world, for me, is at best a SECONDARY criteria. I'm concerned with our choice affects US, first and foremost. Just as Germans choose what is best for Germany, French for France, etc.

Its not like you saw tons of posts by Americans about Angela Merkle vs. Schroeder, after all.......!

2). The ONLY exception to that rule is Pottsylvania. Pottsylvanians are FREE to vote for Boris/Natasha in 2008. Death to Moose and Squirrel!

Darilian
Vote Boris in 2008! Because Fearless Leader TOLD you so.

Well, I did make them two separate polls.

In my travels around the world I've been amazed to realize how much people know and care about US politics. For example, I saw at least one elementary school in Paraguay named after JFK. Also, many people I've met in Europe, Japan, etc know more about US politics than I do.
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Marc P
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I think that it is often very interesting what our international family thinks of our choices. I'm not basing my vote on what they think, but it provides an informative view into their priorities.
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William Boykin
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I just personally think that it can go a bit too far. Der Spiegel had an article proclaiming that after Obama's visit and speech in Germany, "We have seen the next President of the US".

Frankly, this sort of gushing from European press can work AGAINST Obama in the general election- mostly because the average voter is a lot of more 'Nativist' than a lot of those who are posting on BGG. I think that its not a coincidence that Obama started to slip in the polls AFTER his trip to Europe.

Anyway, YMMV (and often does!) I wouldn't doubt that the majority of people on this site who think Europe should butt out of our election are probably Republican, and the majority who think that its 'important' to consider the viewpoint of the rest of the world are probably Democrat.

Except for me of course- I am, after all, a registered Democrat. But I might be swapping parties this year- I'm still not decided on this yet.

Darilian
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Philip Thomas
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1) I don't think US citizens should be part of the poll. I mean, their views are interesting and everything, but this is primarily an external matter, thankyou very much.meeple

The US president has most power in foreign policy, which is what we in the rest of the world care about.


edit: embarassing grammatical error, also added smiley.
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William Boykin
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Philip Thomas wrote:
1) I don't think US citizens should be part of the poll. I mean, their views are interesting and everything, but this is primarily an external matter, thankyou very much.meeple

The US president has most power in foreign policy, which is what we in the rest of the world care about.


edit: embarassing grammatical error, also added smiley.


Sure thing!

Just let us set your Foreign Policy, your trade policy, your policies on immigration, and everything- as well as pay us TAX revenue (ooh, LOTS of Tax Revenue) and THEN you can vote for President. Feel free to take up a large part of our debt load, as well.

If you don't pays the moneys, you don't gets to vote!

Darilian
 
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Darilian wrote:

Just let us set your Foreign Policy, your trade policy, your policies on immigration, and everything- as well as pay us TAX revenue (ooh, LOTS of Tax Revenue) and THEN you can vote for President. Feel free to take up a large part of our debt load, as well.

If you don't pays the moneys, you don't gets to vote!


Quite right!

Only American citizens should have the privilege of seeing their tax dollars spent on political campaigns!
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*AHEM* The US sure TRIES to set everyone else's foreign policy it seems.

Darilian wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
1) I don't think US citizens should be part of the poll. I mean, their views are interesting and everything, but this is primarily an external matter, thankyou very much.meeple

The US president has most power in foreign policy, which is what we in the rest of the world care about.


edit: embarassing grammatical error, also added smiley.


Sure thing!

Just let us set your Foreign Policy, your trade policy, your policies on immigration, and everything- as well as pay us TAX revenue (ooh, LOTS of Tax Revenue) and THEN you can vote for President. Feel free to take up a large part of our debt load, as well.

If you don't pays the moneys, you don't gets to vote!

Darilian
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William Boykin
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Yah, but you borrow money from us, so its ok.

Darilian
(If you don't think my Tongue is Firmly in cheek, then you don't know me that well......)
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Moshe Callen
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Darilian wrote:
Yah, but you borrow money from us, so its ok.

Darilian
(If you don't think my Tongue is Firmly in cheek, then you don't know me that well......)


Yes, I also had tongue in cheek. Just not the same one :wink:.
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Shushnik wrote:
Darilian wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
1) I don't think US citizens should be part of the poll. I mean, their views are interesting and everything, but this is primarily an external matter, thankyou very much.meeple

The US president has most power in foreign policy, which is what we in the rest of the world care about.


edit: embarassing grammatical error, also added smiley.


Sure thing!

Just let us set your Foreign Policy, your trade policy, your policies on immigration, and everything- as well as pay us TAX revenue (ooh, LOTS of Tax Revenue) and THEN you can vote for President. Feel free to take up a large part of our debt load, as well.

If you don't pays the moneys, you don't gets to vote!

Darilian


That's hilarious. The only reason any of us can vote is because a bunch of rich land owners didn't want to pay taxes. Irony at it's finest.


No irony all. The only reason any of us can vote is because a bunch of rich land owners, and a bunch of poor land owners, didn't want to pay taxes without representation. The Declaration of Independence lists a bunch of reasons for breaking from England, including "For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent," but none of which are listed as our right NOT to be taxed, nor does the constitution grant that right; but both are chalk full of reasons and rights for representation.
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Matthew M
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Drew1365 wrote:

A friend of mine is currently traveling in Indonesia, and mentioned a few people there who said they wanted Obama to win "because he is Indonesian."



Okay...so some people in other countries are only as informed about US politics as the average American.

-MMM
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Damon Mosier
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Drew1365 wrote:

A friend of mine is currently traveling in Indonesia, and mentioned a few people there who said they wanted Obama to win "because he is Indonesian."



He lived there for a little while as a kid.
 
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I'm interested in what everybody has to say, BUT

Quote:
Darilian
Vote Boris in 2008! Because Fearless Leader TOLD you so.


I didn't see Boris on the poll.

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Darilian wrote:
I wouldn't doubt that the majority of people on this site who think Europe should butt out of our election are probably Republican,


When did we butt in? Just exercising freedom of speech and all.

OBAMA '08!!!meeple shake
 
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Dane Peacock
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Shushnik wrote:
Sky Knight X wrote:

No irony all. The only reason any of us can vote is because a bunch of rich land owners, and a bunch of poor land owners, didn't want to pay taxes without representation. The Declaration of Independence lists a bunch of reasons for breaking from England, including "For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent," but none of which are listed as our right NOT to be taxed, nor does the constitution grant that right; but both are chalk full of reasons and rights for representation.

Oh give me a break. They didn't want to pay taxes. They used liberty and representation to inflame the public into establishing a system where they did not pay taxes. Without the support of all the colonies, revolution would have been impossible. Without a strawman cause, they'd be stuck in an overtaxed system. Kind of like today's oppressive tax system.

The majority of the colonists were becoming increasingly angered by a series of new taxes from England of which they had no recourse or power to oppose – no representation.

Your view that the Revolution was the brainchild of a few rich people, who duped the poor colonist into fighting for liberty and freedom by using the false promise of a tax free society, is cynical and inaccurate.
Shushnik wrote:
Most modern taxes are the invention of the past 100 years.

Well, yeah. That would be the definition of “modern.”

Shushnik wrote:
If they were so dedicated to paying taxes for representation, they would have established a system where they paid taxes when they had freedom.

They did. In 1789, the constitution allowed for the government to, “lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States.”

Shushnik wrote:
Instead, there was very little taxation in this country for over a century.

Not true. Yes, there were long periods without direct taxation; but even direct taxation was imposed on several occasions.

Almost immediately, to pay the debts of the Revolutionary War, the government levied excise taxes on several products.

In the 1790’s the government imposed the first property and land taxes.

In 1794 Washington had to send out the federal troops to put down the whiskey tax rebellion.

Taxes were raised for the War of 1812 and at other times.

The first income taxes were imposed during the civil war.

Shushnik wrote:
Freedom was their workhorse to get the public behind their movement to remove taxation. The fact that they write it into the history books that way only supports that the victors write history, not the validity of that history.

So, to avoid being fooled by history books and the writings of the founding fathers, where should we go? To you? Where did you come by the truth of the matter?
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Mark, I think the second question, "Who do you think should be President?", is also relevant to US citizens. I think most US citizens would select a different choice than the two current frontrunners.
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Ideally I would like to see Ron Paul win the Presidential race. We all know that isn't happening so I'll be voting for Bob Barr, just as a show of support for seeing a third party gain some ground. I see Democrats and Republicans as essentially the same party. The sooner a third party gains 15% of the vote and the accompanying eligibility to participate in the debates, the sooner we'll have a chance to begin turning things around in this country.
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As most people here in Belgium I hope the American People vote for Obama.

We'll see...

Just a hint: don't vote on one guy because you don't like the other one, just don't vote on any of them

BTW: you guys can choose to go and vote, here in Belgium it's our duty to go and vote (everybody above 18 has to vote).
 
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Scott Russell
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Darilian wrote:

If you don't pays the moneys, you don't gets to vote!


I've actually advocated this, but it's always shot down.

People who collect more from the government than they pay shouldn't be voting, IMO.

If there was a foolproof objcetive way to measure cognizance of the issues, I'd love to see a competency test as well. However, the history associated with that idea is sure to prevent any such measure being implemented.
 
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