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Subject: Start as a human, then turn into a Cylon, how does it fit with the theme? rss

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I haven't seen the tv-show.
Are some good guys turning into bad guys or something?
 
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Jay Adan
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Xaykev wrote:
I haven't seen the tv-show.
Are some good guys turning into bad guys or something?


Yes..

One of the ongoing plot-lines is that the Cylons look like humans so you're never quite sure whether or not some long-time cast member might actually be one.
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Chris
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JayAdan wrote:
Xaykev wrote:
I haven't seen the tv-show.
Are some good guys turning into bad guys or something?


Yes..

One of the ongoing plot-lines is that the Cylons look like humans so you're never quite sure whether or not some long-time cast member might actually be one.


Even they are not 100% sure they are not a Cylon
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Gergely Orsó
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Furthermore, some of the human-looking cylons are programmed to think of themselves as humans, so even they are not aware of being cylons untill thier programming kicks in.
To make things worse, some cylon models (revealed later in the show) are not even known to the other "regular" cylons...

So the game does a pretty good job with the sleeper agent phase in my opinion!
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Xaykev wrote:
I haven't seen the tv-show.
Are some good guys turning into bad guys or something?


Pretty much on a regular basis.

The show is about paranoia.

Not just that everyone else is a bad guy in disguise. But that you yourself might be a badguy in disguise.

Some cylons that thought they were human go through quite a breakdown when they discover they are the enemy.
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Chris Malme
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Of course, all of the above replies pre-suppose that the Cylons *are* the bad guys.

Are we sure of this?
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Michael Denman
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Personally, I've never quite understood the skinjobs. If they're advanced cyborgs, then why can't a medical analysis detect them? Even if they're composed of purely organic components they should register as different from humans. Because they are most definitely NOT human. If they die, their memory downloads. There has to be a mechanism for that. And we've seen them attach fiber-optics into their arms. OK, I guess I could do that too, but it doesn't have any useful effects when I do it.
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Paul DeStefano
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Trump wrote:
why can't a medical analysis detect them?


Gaius develops the blood test early on.

The basic problem is the cylon tech is superior and makes itself undetectable to our clumsy ways.

But this becomes the real heart of the show:

When is a human a human? What defines a human? If medical tests CAN'T see a difference - is there one?
 
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Adam D.
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Their spines glow when they have sex, but the humans have no way of detecting them that was a major theme of the first season and turned me off early on (well, that and the shaky cam space combat). There are still some cool moments to the show, though, but as far as humans to cylons? Yah, pretty much assume everyone is a cylon and your accuracy will go way up.
 
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Jack Defevers
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One-word answer to the question posed in the thread title:

Perfectly.
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tim
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TheCollector wrote:
Their spines glow when they have sex, but the humans have no way of detecting them that was a major theme of the first season
I don't remember that, I'll have to go re-watch season 1.

The Baltar test was never proved to work. That's why they haven't tested every person in the fleet.

Edit: Though I always thought it was a hole in the plot that they didn't keep trying to fix it or find another way to detect cylons.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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eightbit wrote:
Edit: Though I always thought it was a hole in the plot that they didn't keep trying to fix it or find another way to detect cylons.


Its not a plot hole. Baltar is made a decision maker and he decides to make it fairly impossible to do.
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A L D A R O N
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Geosphere wrote:
The show is about paranoia.

LOL! The show is "about" nothing (except maybe perspiration and great space battles). Don't get be wrong, I'm hooked; but to say it's "about" something is giving the "writers" far too much credit.
 
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Tim Powers
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Aldaron wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
The show is about paranoia.

LOL! The show is "about" nothing (except maybe perspiration and great space battles). Don't get be wrong, I'm hooked; but to say it's "about" something is giving the "writers" far too much credit.


Yeah, it is so about nothing I often have a hard time remembering whether I am watching Battlestar Galactica or Seinfeld! laugh
 
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tim
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Geosphere wrote:
eightbit wrote:
Edit: Though I always thought it was a hole in the plot that they didn't keep trying to fix it or find another way to detect cylons.


Its not a plot hole. Baltar is made a decision maker and he decides to make it fairly impossible to do.
But the humans let it go, surely there are other scientists within the fleet. It just seems to important for them to simply let Baltar of the hook and not pursue it.
 
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Tim Powers
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eightbit wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
eightbit wrote:
Edit: Though I always thought it was a hole in the plot that they didn't keep trying to fix it or find another way to detect cylons.


Its not a plot hole. Baltar is made a decision maker and he decides to make it fairly impossible to do.
But the humans let it go, surely there are other scientists within the fleet. ...


But not necessarily scientists with the right expertise, resources or desire to question what one of the most preeminent scientists of the day is saying beyond speculative converstations.
 
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Gergely Orsó
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The gloving spine was an effect that did look cool in the pilot, but was admittedly discarded by the writers later on. So imagine it has "never happened". Well, no character in the show actually saw it, so...

The cylon detector is another matter. Gaius somehow makes is to work early on, but for some odd reason I do not comepletly understand, decides to falsify the results. So, later when...someone is revealed to be cylon, the fleet officials think that it did not work after all and discard the project.
 
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eightbit wrote:
Geosphere wrote:
Its not a plot hole. Baltar is made a decision maker and he decides to make it fairly impossible to do.
But the humans let it go, surely there are other scientists within the fleet. It just seems to important for them to simply let Baltar of the hook and not pursue it.

There's < 70,000 people in total, and they're trying to keep a society running somehow. Baltar has looked at it, and not been able to find anything, Jill The Scientist isn't going to take time off her tillium refinery chemistry problems to second-guess him. She's got to keep the fleet fueled.

Of course, I still think it's a plot hole, because detection should be vastly easier than the writers made it. But, sometimes you have to swallow a few inconsistencies to enjoy an SF show. Where "sometimes" is functionally identical to "always". shake
 
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Kelly Overholser
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If you have the DVDs, go watch the last bit of "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down". Gaius basically decides that it's far too much hassle to really test everyone, so he just fixes it so everyone shows green.

(Also earlier in the episode, he says that it takes several hours for one test.)
 
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Dan
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Yeah... I see what you did there.
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Also, Gaius decides that anyone that REALLY annoys him. Well... He can just declare him/her a cylon and they'll get spaced.

He realizes that he has the power to protect himself.

Also, yes. The Cylon infiltrators are SO human, that they start becoming human. Including being able to...
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Breed. Cylons are obsessed with breeding. Not just cloning, but making new life like a real life form.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:

It's because
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Sharon is standing right there asking "Am I a Cylon or what?" and Baltar is afraid she'll kill him when he tells her the truth, so he says "Nope! Completely human" even though his li'l machine did work.


Correct!

I think the real plot hole (IMO) is when...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Doctor cures the President's cancer with the hybrid blood. You would think that this line of investigation/research would come up with "some" difference that is detectable by blood tests.
 
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Cameron McKenzie
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The whole point in some cylons appearing human is so that they can trick other humans. If it was that easy to detect, there'd be no reason to make "human" cylons at all.

I don't know how much detail the show goes into, but has anyone considered that maybe the cylons use real human bodies to create these humanoid cylons? They could capture a human, remove parts of it's brain (killing the human in the process) and replacing it with a microcomputer that's designed to interface perfectly with the human body and function just as well as a real human brain.

Since many of these humanoid cylons are intended to be used as spies, and any indication that this person is not a human would be ruinous to the plan, it makes sense that cylons would be programmed with human behavior, human emotion, and even human memory. These cylons would not even know that they aren't human, and because the only thing indicating they are different from humans is a processor deep in their brain, it would be difficult to detect without opening up someone's skull (not a very easy or safe procedure). At some point, an external trigger may cause their programming to "switch" so that they suddenly become aware that they are cylons and begin to work against the humans.

I don't know if this is at all in keeping with the show, but if the show does not suggest any alternatives, I think this is at least plausible.
 
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Gergely Orsó
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TheChin! wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:

It's because
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Sharon is standing right there asking "Am I a Cylon or what?" and Baltar is afraid she'll kill him when he tells her the truth, so he says "Nope! Completely human" even though his li'l machine did work.


Correct!


Correct this may be, but that's not the part I don't understand. My problem comes with the end of the "tigh me up..." episode, where he declares that everyone shall just pass the test form now on. Which is quite convinient for season 3 ending revealations, but quite silly otherwise
 
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Dan Sulin
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TheChin! wrote:

Correct!

I think the real plot hole (IMO) is when...

Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Doctor cures the President's cancer with the hybrid blood. You would think that this line of investigation/research would come up with "some" difference that is detectable by blood tests.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Of course maybe this just points to the Doctor being a Cylon sympathizer or maybe even the 5th Cylon himself. There seems to have been some hints dropped in the show that he might know more about whats going on then he is letting on
 
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Dan
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Yeah... I see what you did there.
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MasterDinadan wrote:

I don't know if this is at all in keeping with the show, but if the show does not suggest any alternatives, I think this is at least plausible.
Yep, that's more or less totally right. Cylon sleepers totally believe that they are human.

Also, Cylons clone their human types again and again. There are only 12 human models, and some are even unknown to revealed Cylons (But there are many copies of each.)

SERIOUS SPOILER ALERT:http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Humanoid_Cylon

Spoiler (click to reveal)
(This does not include Centurions or Raiders, (Basestar Controller?) but they ALL have biotech elements in their construction. They, again, can't breed like humans. Yet.)


 
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