Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Arkham Horror: Kingsport Horror Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rifts and Arrows rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Daryl Falco
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mb
Hi all,

Suppose there is a black moon rift in a location that has a two-colored arrow leading out of it. A mythos card indicates that moon monsters move on white arrows, so the rift now moves and spits out a monster.

Is a doom token added to the doom track since the rift (technically) also moved along a black arrow?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Browne
United States
Terre Haute
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Big D wrote:
Hi all,

Suppose there is a black moon rift in a location that has a two-colored arrow leading out of it. A mythos card indicates that moon monsters move on white arrows, so the rift now moves and spits out a monster.

Is a doom token added to the doom track since the rift (technically) also moved along a black arrow?


I believe that rift movement for the purpose of "spitting monsters" (we use a different rhyming word for this phenomenon) is based on the Mythos card and not the arrows. Therefore, in the example you have given, since the Mythos card indicates moon moving on white, you would not place a monster.

A note here is, if playing with Dunwich, you can have a rift end up on a vortex and start "spitting" monsters directly into a vortex. But again, it would only do it each time that the Mythos card showed movement of the appropriate type for the rift.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have to disagree with Ed unfortunately.

A Rift moves because its symbol comes up. A monster is spit out when a Rift moves. Because you drew a moon, it moves and spits out a monster.

Because the moon is on a white background, it moves along the white arrow. But you indicate the white and black arrows are the same (presumably coming from a location to a street area). Since the Rift is also black, it also adds the doom token:

From the rule book:
Quote:
In addition, if a rift moves along an arrow of the same
color as its dimensional symbol, a doom token is added to
the Ancient One’s doom track.

Even though the white arrow caused it to move, it is still moving across the black arrow. This means that a doom token will always be added when first moving from a location.

I agree with Ed's Dunwich note as this was made official by Kevin awhile ago.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ed Browne
United States
Terre Haute
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ColtsFan76 wrote:
I have to disagree with Ed unfortunately.

A Rift moves because its symbol comes up. A monster is spit out when a Rift moves. Because you drew a moon, it moves and spits out a monster.

Because the moon is on a white background, it moves along the white arrow. But you indicate the white and black arrows are the same (presumably coming from a location to a street area). Since the Rift is also black, it also adds the doom token:

From the rule book:
Quote:
In addition, if a rift moves along an arrow of the same
color as its dimensional symbol, a doom token is added to
the Ancient One’s doom track.

Even though the white arrow caused it to move, it is still moving across the black arrow. This means that a doom token will always be added when first moving from a location.

I agree with Ed's Dunwich note as this was made official by Kevin awhile ago.


You are right, as always Brian. It is the doom token adding that is based on color. It always spits out a monster when it moves. We're going to need an interpretation on this, as I think that wording is referring to the Mythos card and not the board. Because that is the wording on the rules for interpretting Mythos cards, isn't it? That the movement section is to indicate what color arrow the monsters of dimensional symbols move on? Just because the location has both arrows doesn't change the Mythos card's interpretation of what arrow it is moving on.

All Rifts start in locations, so I would think that an "exception" to this rule (or clarification) would have been obvious to add to the rules. Since Mythos cards seem to be what are the timing mechanism, I see them as the indicator in this case.

Just something else we'll have to wait for a ruling on...

p.s. I'm going to have to stop trying to beat you to answers if it means I'm going to get them wrong. Thanks for setting me straight.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I hear what you are saying and agree that clarification is probably needed.

But I quoted the rules to show that the "trigger" is moving along a path of the same color, not the Mythos card itself. The paths leading from a location is fully black and fully white; I don't think you can say that it is only white when monsters of that color move along it and black when the others move.

I also think this is the intent because it guarantees that any rift moving from a location will always place a doom token. If you don't follow this, then it is possible that a Rift will never place a doom token. With this interpretation, it makes rifts harder.

I still haven't gotten to a KH game yet, but it seems to me this might be why people think Rifts aren't that big of a deal.

ps. Nice distraction - send me a long email to respond to and then answer before me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daryl Falco
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mb
Thanks for the opinions, guys. Hmm...maybe this needs to go on that list of unanswered questions you've got at the FFG forum, Brian?

I'm still not sure what to think about this. Brian's quote from the rulebook along with this passage from the original AH rulebook (pg 11): "The arrows leading out of some locations are black on one side and white on the other. These arrows count as both a black arrow and a white arrow..." seem to indicate that a doom token should be added in the situation that I posed.

However, the wording of the example from the KH rules (pg 9, bottom right) is bothering me. It clearly shows a white circle rift moving along a double-colored arrow, but the text states (emphasis mine): "If it moves along a white arrow...a doom token is added to the doom track." You think they'd put Since instead of If to make it more clear that a doom token is really added. Maybe this example supports Ed's argument?

Oh well, hopefully we'll get an official clarification. In the meantime, my gaming group will make a decision if need be. This game is fiddly, that's for sure, but fortunately it's still a hell of a lot of fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Art Silverio

West Des Moines
Iowa
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I suppose you could assume that the double arrows could be like 2 sidewalks going down the same street. Going in the same direction but 2 different paths. So in the example above no doom token would be added.

That's the way I'm gonna play it!

(Until they make me stop)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrSkeletor wrote:
I back Ed's original interpretation, seems to me like that was the intended meaning of the rule.

On doom tokens or monsters?

Doom tokens is questionable, I agree. Monster placement, though, is clear in the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MrSkeletor wrote:
Doom tokens.
What was the [m]onster placement question?

Ed's original interpretation

I have added the question to the ever growing list of unanswered questions for Kevin here:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffgforums/posts/list/10131...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
brian
United States
Cedar Lake
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Big D wrote:
However, the wording of the example from the KH rules (pg 9, bottom right) is bothering me. It clearly shows a white circle rift moving along a double-colored arrow, but the text states (emphasis mine): "If it moves along a white arrow...a doom token is added to the doom track." You think they'd put Since instead of If to make it more clear that a doom token is really added. Maybe this example supports Ed's argument?

I don't find this argument compelling enough to overturn my interpretation.

1) Examples have been wrong before in these rulebooks. 2) The wording doesn't really say anything about it moving along white or black arrows. It is just making a general statement that if it moves along white arrows it adds doom tokens.

I chatted briefly with Kevin yesterday about AH rules. He knows about the open thread and is trying to get to it. He is just swamped with other projects at FFG and time is a bit short.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jefferson Krogh
United States
San Leandro
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with Brian's interpretation entirely.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel B
Sweden
Kungsbacka
flag msg tools
128
badge
22
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think this might have been resolved in the FAQ answers from Kevin in this thread.

Quote:
Quote:
3. What happens if a Rift appears in Kingsport and moves into a Vortice? I would say it simply remains there, spitting out a monster that instantly passes through the vortice every time it is supposed to move, but again, the rulebook doesn't say.

3. If a rift moves into a vortex, it just sits there, as you surmised. Note that a rift will still add a doom token / spit out monsters if it cannot move. The drawing of the proper dimensional symbol on a mythos card is the trigger for that, NOT the actual movement.

[emphasis mine]

As he said, it's the dimensional symbol on the mythos card that determines if a doom token is added, not the actual movement.



1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.