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Subject: INDONESIA or CONTAINER? rss

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Renato Corrêa
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Looking for an economical game (yes I have power grid, no I cant find Age of Steam). Which one is better: Indonesia or Container? Why?

Thanks again
 
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Nick Fisk
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That's weird. This bit used to mention Shire Games, and tell you all how wonderful we are. But it seems to have got deleted. Let's see what happens this time ....
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I've only played one, so I will not comment.

But also .... have a look at Wealth of Nations


N.
 
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Indonesia by a country mile. Container is just to repetitive and long for what it offers in variety.
 
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Agent J
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Brass: Lancashire is another one to look at. I've only played Indonesia and Brass once each, but I enjoyed both of them very much. Container I am dying to play. But here's the thing - I can get other people to play Brass with me, they want to play Brass, while nobody around me seems interested in Container or Indonesia (I was lucky to get them to play the one time for Indonesia, and I can't even get anyone to take Container off the shelf... as soon as I have the funds it's mine... and hopefully they'll play with me then, heh).

Unfortunately, since I haven't played Container, I can't recommend between Indonesia and Container.
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Aloha!
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Indonesia. No real question.
 
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Einmal ist keinmal
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I haven't played Indonesia, but Container is not too long for what it is. I enjoy it a lot.
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J C Lawrence
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Renato99 wrote:
Looking for an economical game (yes I have power grid, no I cant find Age of Steam). Which one is better: Indonesia or Container? Why?


Tough call. I'll side slightly with Container. Both games are delightful.
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jbrier
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I love both games, but I agree Indonesia is better.

Container really requires repeated plays to get past the initial fragility that results from the game's susceptibility to groupthink. Truthfully, although I love the game, I'm reluctant to introduce it to new groups as every so often it flops with first-time players. That all being said it is a great game that embodies economic principles very well. It reminds me of Modern Art in many ways, and if you like Modern Art you'll probably like Container too.

Indonesia is just a ridiculously good business game that comes heavy on strategy and interaction. It's a bit mathy, and can get a little fiddly towards the end but with repeated plays this becomes a non-issue. The game lasts around 3 hours- and is engaging throughout.

I'd say get both, but if you have to choose one pick Indonesia.
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Barry Goldstein
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What is this 'OR' you speak of?


AND baby AND!
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Pedro
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I like them both a lot!

Container has simpler rules and plays quicker, but I think it's a wonderful, rich economics game. In my opinion, with the right group, it's a masterpiece.

Indonesia's rules are more complicated, it takes longer, and is more expensive, but it's also less abstracted and probably more complex.

I think they both deal with supply and demand, but Container is more about setting the right prices, while Indonesia is more about having the right infrastructure at the right time... and knowing when to dump it.

If you like economics games, I'd get them both. I know I did.
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Karl Deckard
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Indonesia would be my vote.

Brass: Lancashire can be hard for players to grok on the first play, but it is definitely worth it, so I would add that to your list.

Container doesn't really play the way players think an economy game will play, which makes it very easy to play the "the wrong way", the first time out.


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Agent J
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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I won my first game of Brass against all people who had played before... But then again, I read the rulebook before hand and dreamed about it at night before I got that first, sweet play... but I felt it a lot stronger for Indonesia. Eventually I had to just lay it down and say, "Guys, I've wanted to play this game since it came out in 2005. It's 2008 now. Can we please play it?"
 
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Kevin Nesbitt
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Echoing some of the comments here... they're both good games.

Indonesia has a lot more of the traditional euro-game "safety nets" in place than Container does, meaning that players unfamiliar with an economics game will probably find Indonesia easier to get into on a first play. Container is substantially more unforgiving in that regard, although to its credit, those familiar with economic games, or those willing to play it more than once, will find that Container allows for a wider range of decision-making, and is probably a more authentic representation of economics than Indonesia. Both games, however, are worthy of consideration.

It's a tough call, for sure. Since I'm highly biased as being the publisher of one of the games, I don't think it's fair to recommend one over the other. Really, I think the choice comes down to the type of players you expect will be playing with you.
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John Di Ponio
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Indonesi.....definately more depth!
 
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Darrell Hanning
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I've played both several times. Even when I've won Container, I've come away from it wondering if I even like the thing - whether I actually enjoyed myself or not.

But with Indonesia, I've enjoyed myself from the first playing - whether I win or get my ass handed to me.
 
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Devon Harmon
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Back in May, I played each of these games once, back-to-back at a gaming day. Based upon my experience that day, I would go with Indonesia.

I want to play Indonesia again. In fact I am eager to do so.

I have absolutly no desire to ever play Container again. Look, I get it: we were all new to the game, so it was our first time with container, it takes repeated plays to fully grasp, the gameplay is nuanced, etc... but I really just don't care. I am unwilling to invest my limited gaming time in "discovering" the great game that people say is in Container. If I ever played this game again, the whole time I'd just be thinking to myself, "I'd rather be playing Indonesia."
 
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Troy Adlington
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I loved Indonesia.
 
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Devin Smith
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Very different games. Very very.

Do your research: which one is better strongly depends on which group you're playing with, though you've picked two of the best games in the general genre (I'd recommend against Brass and WoN as first econ. games).

Also consider the price point: Indonesia is hard-to-find and was never cheap, and Container is still widely available and cheaper.

(My personal rec. would be Indonesia, but I'm a Train gamer and it scratches that itch somewhat)
 
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John Rogers
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pitris wrote:
I like them both a lot!

Container has simpler rules and plays quicker, but I think it's a wonderful, rich economics game. In my opinion, with the right group, it's a masterpiece.

Indonesia's rules are more complicated, it takes longer, and is more expensive, but it's also less abstracted and probably more complex.

I think they both deal with supply and demand, but Container is more about setting the right prices, while Indonesia is more about having the right infrastructure at the right time... and knowing when to dump it.

If you like economics games, I'd get them both. I know I did.


thumbsup Perfectly stated.

Both games are brilliant (each get a 9 from me) and work well with different groups. If you have a coperative group then go with Container as it is more prone to group think. If your group is more ruthless buy Indonesia as it will appeal to their nastiness with hostile takeovers.

 
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Dan Oster
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I too loved my one play of Indonesia, even though I came in last place. It has lots of delicious choices and paths to take to win.

I have played Container several times and also really like it, but it is a lot more unforgiving of mistakes, your own and others'. I think that you have to have a very open mind to the game play in Container, because if you try to stick to your own plan and not react to/be flexible to what all the other players are doing, you will surely fail. This game requires quite a lot of co-operation from all the players to keep the economy growing and the game can bog down with a lot of player frustration if this doesn't happen.

IMHO, both games are great, in-spite of my warnings about Container.

 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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Excalabur wrote:
Very different games. Very very.

Do your research: which one is better strongly depends on which group you're playing with, though you've picked two of the best games in the general genre (I'd recommend against Brass and WoN as first econ. games).

Also consider the price point: Indonesia is hard-to-find and was never cheap, and Container is still widely available and cheaper.

(My personal rec. would be Indonesia, but I'm a Train gamer and it scratches that itch somewhat)


Why are you recommending against Brass? Just curious.
 
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Jasper
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Having played them both once, I would say Indonesia is the game I want to play again more. But both are fine games.
 
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Ian Madsen
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I have played both, and would recommend Indonesia (which also happens to be my favorite game).

I find Container to be odd and not economicaly realistic. It has players playing three types of companies at the same time (manufactures, wholesalers, & shipping), but are not allowed to do buisiness with themselves (you can’t buy the containers from your factory nor can you ship containers from your warehouses).

In Indonesia, players select what types of companies they want (subject to availability), and can do business with whoever they please. Players must do as much business as possible (even if some of your sale isn’t making profit). But the fun part of Indonesia is the mergers, which is not found in any games I’ve played.

I also second the recomendation for Wealth of Nations. I have not played Brass, but I want to.
 
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Agent J
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He's looking real sharp in his 1940's fedora. He's got nerves of steel, an iron will, and several other metal-themed attributes. His fur is water tight and he's always up for a fight.
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He's a semi-aquatic egg-laying mammal of action. He's a furry little flat-foot who'll never flinch from a fray. He's got more than just mad skills, he's got a beaver tail and a bill.
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Doing as much business as possible even if you're losing money on it isn't economically realistic, either... But hey, both systems work to make each a good game. If you could do all the steps in Container by yourself, all it would be is auctions to the island...

Indonesia also doesn't require any capital to start companies. And, when you merge two companies together, third parties usually don't get a chance to bid on the resulting company. Oh well! It's still awesome.
 
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Stefan Lopuszanski
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Doesn't Indonesia cost an arm and a leg to buy? Container is actually priced within a normal budget, so that is what I'd base my choice on.
 
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