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Subject: The third commandment rss

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Philip Thomas
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Well, it would be a breach of that commandment to take the oath of allegiance without meaning it. I suppose a certain percentage of people taking the oath don't mean it, so the commandment is getting breached.

Whether it was a sin to put the phrase "under God" in there in the first place is another question.
 
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As a Mennonite, we do not say the pledge of allegiance at all, since we believe it is swearing and Christ told us not to swear, but let our yeas be yeas and our nays be nays. We do not swear any oaths. In court, we do not "swear" we "affirm" that we will tell the truth.

So, there's another perspective.
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True Blue Jon
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Isn't saying the pledge of allegiance violating the 1st commandment? Or does the "under God" part make it OK?
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quozl wrote:
Isn't saying the pledge of allegiance violating the 1st commandment? Or does the "under God" part make it OK?


Pledging loyalty is the same as making something a god? Did you make a pledge with your wife when you married her? Is she your god now?


Jon, sometimes I think you just like being contrary.
 
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True Blue Jon
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Scott Firestone IV wrote:
quozl wrote:
Isn't saying the pledge of allegiance violating the 1st commandment? Or does the "under God" part make it OK?


Pledging loyalty is the same as making something a god? Di you make a pledge with your wife? Is she your god now?


Jon, sometimes I think you just like being contrary.


Maybe I do. But it's not the words of the pledge that make it seem like worship, it's the attitude that surrounds it. This is from Wikipedia:

Quote:
It should be recited by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.
 
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quozl wrote:

Maybe I do. But it's not the words of the pledge that make it seem like worship, it's the attitude that surrounds it. This is from Wikipedia:

Quote:
It should be recited by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.


Is that how you worship?

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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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Would this be a bad time for me to mention the Establishment Clause?
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Shushnik wrote:
one of the big ten sins


Just a side note, sin is sin. There is no scale. Vanity is just as sinful as lying or murder.

 
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Commandex wrote:
Vanity is just as sinful as lying or murder.


Not if you're as hot as I am.
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Scott Firestone IV wrote:
Commandex wrote:
Vanity is just as sinful as lying or murder.


Not if you're as hot as I am.


Is the avatar any indication?
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le_cygne wrote:
Would this be a bad time for me to mention the Establishment Clause?


There's never a bad time to mention the Establishment Clause.
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Philip Thomas
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Commandex wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
one of the big ten sins


Just a side note, sin is sin. There is no scale. Vanity is just as sinful as lying or murder.



Just as a foot note to the side note, some belief systems definitely have a scale of sins. For example, my own personal belief system (which in this respect is based on the Catechism of the Catholic Church) distinguishes between venial sins and mortal sins. Murder is a mortal sin. Vanity and lying, at least without further complication, are venial sins.

What does this distinction mean in practis? Well, a person in mortal sin will go to hell if he dies unrepentant, and if he takes holy communion that makes the mortal sin worse. A person in venial sin will probably get time in purgatory for it rather than hell, and taking holy communion removes the stain of venial sins.

Sorry, footnote turns out to be rather lengthy...
 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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This entire thread is full of fail. If you don't like the "under God" clause then argue the separation of church and state. It's very simple. If that doesn't work, do you really think accusing Christians of not following the commandments is gonna work? I'd say it's about as effective as when Christians accuse atheists of not properly applying the scientific method in their reasoning.
 
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ejmowrer wrote:
I'd say it's about as effective as when Christians accuse atheists of not properly applying the scientific method in their reasoning.


Who said Athiests were scientists?
 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Shushnik wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
This entire thread is full of fail. If you don't like the "under God" clause then argue the separation of church and state. It's very simple. If that doesn't work, do you really think accusing Christians of not following the commandments is gonna work? I'd say it's about as effective as when Christians accuse atheists of not properly applying the scientific method in their reasoning.


I apologize. Next time I see something I find to be noteworthy, I'll clear it through you first to see if it is an acceptable arguement. I was unaware of your position of approving which arguements are suitable for which causes.


Apology accepted.
 
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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MWChapel wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
I'd say it's about as effective as when Christians accuse atheists of not properly applying the scientific method in their reasoning.


Who said Athiests were scientists?


Who said Christians all believe the same thing w/r/t the 10 commandments and how they relate to the pledge of allegiance?
 
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With "Under God" or without, the Pledge of Allegiance is creepy.

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Clinton Smith
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When I look at a group of people reciting the Pledge of Allegiance it reminds me of trained dogs performing tricks on command.
 
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Bryan Johnson
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travistdale wrote:
With "Under God" or without, the Pledge of Allegiance is creepy.



With "Under God" taken out, the Pledge of Allegiance is completely secular.

(As it was intended)

 
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True Blue Jon
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Scott Firestone IV wrote:
quozl wrote:

Maybe I do. But it's not the words of the pledge that make it seem like worship, it's the attitude that surrounds it. This is from Wikipedia:

Quote:
It should be recited by standing at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart. When not in uniform men should remove any non-religious headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart. Persons in uniform should remain silent, face the flag, and render the military salute.


Is that how you worship?


Worship is attitude. However, what's described above is very similar to prayer. It proscribes body position, hand position, facing, and silence.
 
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Clinton Smith
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Koldfoot wrote:
Artaxerxes wrote:
When I look at a group of people reciting the Pledge of Allegiance it reminds me of trained dogs performing tricks on command.

As I am reminded of pat, liberal rejoinders.


Are you implying that I'm some kind of a liberal Pavlovian Dog? I tend to think of myself as more like that lazy old hound on "Hee Haw".

 
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Commandex wrote:
Shushnik wrote:
one of the big ten sins


Just a side note, sin is sin. There is no scale. Vanity is just as sinful as lying or murder.



This is actually not true.
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