Stewart Nairn
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I'm trying to learn ASLSK. Not having anyone to show me I posted my my first effort here http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/336117 The German half of the first turn of Retaking Vierville. I am grateful to those who pointed out mistakes and hope I haven't made the same ones again.

I have now played out the Americans first turn and would be grateful again if anyone could point out where I have missed a rule, got a rule wrong or just done something downright silly.

Talking of silly, I have no doubt that the tactics I have used are laughable but I am more keen on just getting the mechanics of the game right. My plan being to get the mechanics sorted then look to tactics.

So here we are Turn 1, The American's Turn.





Made a couple of errors getting to this position, will presume that we are where we are rather than try to retrace and rectify. So..

Rally Phase.

I set up the 3 American 747s and the 8-1 that are about to come onto the north edge of the map which, for this scenario starts at the V hexes.

No SW to worry about.
Self Rallies. Americans have nothing to rally. The Broken German 747s can't rally themselves as they do not have a box round there broken side morale.
Unit Rallies. The only broken troops, the Germans, are not stacked with a Good Order Leader. So nothing happens.
The DM marker gets removed. I suppose that makes those troops easier to rally if a leader gets to them. I see that removal is optional since the units are not in woods or building. Wonder why you might choose to remain DM.

Prep Fire Phase
Just for the sake of having something to look at I'll have the 747 on N3 Prep Fire at the broken units in 02.
LOS is ok.
Now, I could be wrong here but I cannot see anything to indicate that the fact that the German's used Low Crawl to get to where they are has any effect on the American's ability to fire on them now. So I think that is us onto the Dice roll...
5 and 2 which give an NMC on the 6 column.
First unit has morale 6. Dice Roll... 5 and 2 so fails. Unit is already broken so suffers casualty reduction. Since the unit is a half squad it gets eliminated.
The next unit is a Half Squad with Morale 6. Dice Roll... 3 and 2. So pass.
Next unit is a Full Squad with Morale 7. Dice Roll 1 and 2. So another pass.
Don't think anyone is pinned.
Mark Firer (is that a word?) with Prep Fire Marker, giving us...




Movement Phase.
A 747 and 8-1 enter the map at the north edge on V7 The intend to Double Time it down the road to 07 using 7MF arriving with a CX marker. There is no Defensive First Fire from N6 until 07 is reached, whereupon a 467 Defensive First Fires with the Leader using his DRM. Rolling the dice...
6 and 6. So 12 then
-1 for Leader DRM
-1 for FFNAM
-1 for FFMO
gives 9
The attacker has 4FP, doubled to 8 for Point Blank Fire giving PTC

PTC for the 8-1. Rolling the dice...
5 and 4. The eader is pinned
PTC for the 747. Rolling the dice...
4 and 4. The are pinned as well

So put pinned marker on top of 747 and 8-1 and a First Fire Marker on top of the German 467 and 8-1.
back to movement. The other two 747s that enter the board do so at V4and travel down the road to Q4 gaining one MF for sticking to the road without anyone firing at them.

Now things look a little messy on the map so I'll straighten the stack in N6.




Now the 747 and 8-1 on L5 are going to Assault Move into M6. As it does so one of the 467s in N6 fires on them. Rolling the dice...
6 and 4.
The 467 has its FP doubled to 8
The Leader can't affect anything because he has already acted.
FFNAM and FFMO are not relevant
+3 for the stone building.
So 8+3 12 which has no result.
One of the 467s is placed under the First Fire Marker.

The 747 in M5 Assault Moves into N5.
The last 467 Defensive First Fires. Dice Roll...
5 and 3 +3 for stone building. As no effect

the 747 in N3 uses 4 MF to reach 06.

Now I have just realised that although The German's have First Fired the can fire again at half strength since there are no nearer enemy units. So they will all fire on this 337.
So three 467s have 12 FP.
I guess that the Leader DRM doesn't come into it.
So halving FP for Final Protective Fire then doubling for Point Blank Fire leaves us with 12
-1 FFNAM is applicable. So, Roll the dice...
4 and 2
giving a 5 on the 12 column. 2MC. Rolling the dice...
6 and 4 plus the two so the 337 has failed so is broken and flipped.. It also failed by more than its ELR so is replaced by a .. no hold on! It has an underlined morale so that's not relevant.

But back to the Germans who fired I need to use the DR for an MC on them. Since there was no directing leader (could there have been) the y all fail the MC by 3 so are broken.
So that's the end of the movement Phase.

Advancing Fire Phase.

The Units in M6 and N5 are eligible for Advancing Fire . Since their FP is underlined the can use +1 Assault Fire
Now,I haven't use a Fire Group yet. So will form these into a group. Since the group is over two hexes and there is only one Leader I can't use a Leader DRM.
So Fire power of each unit is 7. Halved because it is Advancing Fire. Doubled because of PBF then increased by 1 because of Assault fire (the FP is underlined). So that is 8 each, makes 16. Roll the dice...
5 and 3. Plus 3 for stone building. 11 on the 16 column gives PTC.
Check the Leader first. Roll the dice...
5 and 2. He passes.
Check the other three units. One. Roll the dice...
3 and 2, -1 for Leader – Passes. Two. Roll the dice...
5 and 1, -1 for Leader – Passes. Three Roll the dice...
3 and 2, -1 for Leader – Passes.

Remove Prep Fire Counter from 747 in N3

Route Phase

Not to sure about this now.
The three broken 467s in N6 are adjacent to unbroken enemy units so need to route away. The Leader, however is unbroken so can't. So looks like the broken units scarper and leave him behind. Oh well they have to rout to L7 for 3MF then can use another 3 MF to go to K8. So that's what they do. Leaving the Leader behind.
Now, if they take their CX, First Fire Counter(surely that should have been flipped to Final Fire) and DM counter with them I'll need to put new markers on the Leader. Think it's only the Final Fire and CX that applies to him.

Now, The broken US unit is next to an unbroken German Leader. Does that mean it has to rout away. Just as it seems a bit strange three German units “running away” and leaving a Leader it seems a bit strange that this one leader could cause a unit, albeit a broken one to rout. But I think that's what the rules call for so it has to rout to P5 the chooses to go to Q6.

Now the broken German units that previously routed to O2 does not have to/cannot rout because it is not under DM. (I think)
End of Routing. Now the map looks like




Advance Phase.

The 747 in N3 advances to 03.Simple enough

The 747 and Leader advance into N6 and have a CC marker placed on them.

Close Combat Phase.

Only one. The Americans are attacking with 8FP (including one for the Leader)
The German is defending with just 1FP so odds of 8-1.

Hold on. Before that I nee to check for Ambush since The Americans are advancing into a building hex.
Te American rolls a...4
The German rolls a...5
so no ambush.

Roll the dice for CC...
5 and 5 so the defender is eliminated.

Pin counter is removed from O7


Update the Record Chart, and I'm left with...




Will need to check what markers come off when.

So that's the end of the American turn and another evening gone.

Would be very grateful if anyone could flag up errors or omissions .

Thanks






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Richard Savage
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Save yourself the headaches of learning that system and grab a copy of Conflict of Heroes when it becomes available in the US soon. You'll be worrying about tactics instead of rules!

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Merric Blackman
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stewartnairn wrote:
The DM marker gets removed. I suppose that makes those troops easier to rally if a leader gets to them. I see that removal is optional since the units are not in woods or building. Wonder why you might choose to remain DM.


It's generally because you want to rout some more on a later turn (to get to a leader behind the lines, for instance). Units that are broken but aren't under DM can't rout.

Quote:
Now, I could be wrong here but I cannot see anything to indicate that the fact that the German's used Low Crawl to get to where they are has any effect on the American's ability to fire on them now. So I think that is us onto the Dice roll...


Correct. We're in a new turn now and it really doesn't matter how they got there. FFMO and FFNAM don't apply in the Prep Fire phase, only during Defensive Fire.

Quote:
Don't think anyone is pinned.

Broken units cannot be pinned (there's a special case when routing). Note that whenever broken units take fire that possibly could give them a NMC, they all are placed under DM. So, those units should now be DM again.

What does possibly mean? You take the best possible roll and check the IFT. If it gives a better result than "-" or "PTC", then they become DM. Note that you need to take cowering into effect... a 4-4-7 firing at a unit in a stone building (+3 TEM) could roll a natural 2, but that would mean the firer would cower and the result isn't as good as you might expect.

Quote:
Movement Phase.
A 747 and 8-1 enter the map at the north edge on V7 The intend to Double Time it down the road to 07 using 7MF arriving with a CX marker. There is no Defensive First Fire from N6 until 07 is reached, whereupon a 467 Defensive First Fires with the Leader using his DRM. Rolling the dice...
6 and 6. So 12 then
-1 for Leader DRM
-1 for FFNAM
-1 for FFMO
gives 9
The attacker has 4FP, doubled to 8 for Point Blank Fire giving PTC


There's a +1 for CX as well.

Quote:
Now the 747 and 8-1 on L5 are going to Assault Move into M6. As it does so one of the 467s in N6 fires on them. Rolling the dice...
6 and 4.
The 467 has its FP doubled to 8
The Leader can't affect anything because he has already acted.
FFNAM and FFMO are not relevant
+3 for the stone building.
So 8+3 12 which has no result.
One of the 467s is placed under the First Fire Marker.


There's an additional +1 because the 4-6-7 is under CX.

Quote:
The 747 in M5 Assault Moves into N5.
The last 467 Defensive First Fires. Dice Roll...
5 and 3 +3 for stone building. As no effect


+1 for CX.

Quote:
Now I have just realised that although The German's have First Fired the can fire again at half strength since there are no nearer enemy units. So they will all fire on this 337.
So three 467s have 12 FP.
I guess that the Leader DRM doesn't come into it.


The Leader DRM can be used multiple times if the FG is the same each time. If the first 4-6-7 had fired on its own, then you could use the leader. As the Fire Group is different, you can't.

Quote:
So halving FP for Final Protective Fire then doubling for Point Blank Fire leaves us with 12
-1 FFNAM is applicable. So, Roll the dice...


+1 CX.

Quote:
4 and 2
giving a 5 on the 12 column. 2MC. Rolling the dice...
6 and 4 plus the two so the 337 has failed so is broken and flipped.. It also failed by more than its ELR so is replaced by a .. no hold on! It has an underlined morale so that's not relevant.


Correct.

Quote:
But back to the Germans who fired I need to use the DR for an MC on them. Since there was no directing leader (could there have been) the y all fail the MC by 3 so are broken.


No... they're using Subsequent Fire, not Final Protective Fire.

Here's how it works:
The first time they fire in the Movement Phase, you mark them with a First Fire counter.

The second time, they fire at half FP, and you flip the First Fire counter to a Final Fire counter.

From then on, they can only fire at units that move adjacent to them in Final Protective Fire - half FP, and they use the original DR of the fire attack as a NMC on themselves. Note that you actually rolled a 6 for the fire attack and would be fine. (The 10 was the morale check for the Americans).

Quote:
So that's the end of the movement Phase.


Note that there's now a Defensive Fire phase. German units that aren't marked with First Fire/Final Fire counters may fire, and German units marked with First Fire counts may fire, but only at adjacent targets at half FP. Not that you have any, but it's probably worth a reminder.


Quote:
Not to sure about this now.


The Rout Phase does take a bit of getting used to.

Quote:
The three broken 467s in N6 are adjacent to unbroken enemy units so need to route away. The Leader, however is unbroken so can't.


Actually, unbroken Leaders can rout along with broken units. However, if the units get Interdicted, they get eliminated/suffer Casualty Reduction along with the broken units.

Quote:
So looks like the broken units scarper and leave him behind. Oh well they have to rout to L7 for 3MF then can use another 3 MF to go to K8. So that's what they do. Leaving the Leader behind.


Here's the problem: they can't rout. Routing units may not move closer to or adjacent to Known enemy units, and they can't end the Rout Phase adjacent to a Known enemy unit. As these units are trapped between two American forces, they're eliminated for failure to Rout!

Also, if they were allowed to rout in such a fashion, when they entered K8 they'd be vulnerable to Interdiction.

Quote:
Think it's only the Final Fire and CX that applies to him.


Final Fire counters should have been removed at the end of the Defensive Fire phase (after Move, before Assault fire).

Quote:
Now, The broken US unit is next to an unbroken German Leader. Does that mean it has to rout away.


Yes. Note: the US units need to rout before the German units. Very important - Attacking units rout before Defending units.

Quote:
Now the broken German units that previously routed to O2 does not have to/cannot rout because it is not under DM. (I think)


Correct. (Although, as previously noted, they should be under DM).


Quote:
Would be very grateful if anyone could flag up errors or omissions .


Flagged!

Cheers,
Merric
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Andy Daglish
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stewartnairn wrote:
Wonder why you might choose to remain DM.


so they can rout again in the RPh.

Quote:
Prep Fire Phase
Just for the sake of having something to look at I'll have the 747 on N3 Prep Fire at the broken units in 02.


It might have been an idea to put the broken units in different hexes. Even in the Monty Python sketch you only get one person per bush.

Quote:
Don't think anyone is pinned.


they can't be, as they are broken [and unable to perform actions affected by Pin].

Quote:
Mark Firer (is that a word?)
8 in Scrabble.

Quote:
Movement Phase.
A 747 and 8-1 enter the map at the north edge on V7 The intend to Double Time it down the road to 07 using 7MF


the single MF implies they stay on the road, so 4+2 for the leader, +2 for CX, +1 for the road = 9.

Quote:
arriving with a CX marker. There is no Defensive First Fire from N6 until 07 is reached, whereupon a 467 Defensive First Fires with the Leader using his DRM. Rolling the dice...
6 and 6.


doubles, so they Cower to the next lowest FP column.

+1 for CX in all cases

Quote:
Now the 747 and 8-1 on L5 are going to Assault Move into M6. As it does so one of the 467s in N6 fires on them. Rolling the dice...
6 and 4.
The 467 has its FP doubled to 8
The Leader can't affect anything because he has already acted.
FFNAM and FFMO are not relevant
+3 for the stone building.
So 8+3 12 which has no result.
One of the 467s is placed under the First Fire Marker.


they can Subsequent FF and FPF as the target is adjacent and one of the closest targets, and because the target spent 3MF adjacent for three fire attacks.

Quote:
the 747 in N3 uses 4 MF to reach 06.
but he Prep fired, so no movement. Presumably you mean the 337.

Quote:
Now I have just realised that although The German's have First Fired the can fire again at half strength since there are no nearer enemy units. So they will all fire on this 337.
So three 467s have 12 FP.
I guess that the Leader DRM doesn't come into it.
So halving FP for Final Protective Fire


Subsequent First Fire?

Quote:
then doubling for Point Blank Fire leaves us with 12
-1 FFNAM is applicable. So, Roll the dice...
4 and 2
giving a 5 on the 12 column. 2MC.


+3 TEM?

Quote:
Rolling the dice...
6 and 4 plus the two so the 337 has failed so is broken and flipped.. It also failed by more than its ELR so is replaced by a .. no hold on! It has an underlined morale so that's not relevant.


I think the HS is disrupted, since its not a member of the SS/Japanese/Gurkha nutter tendency.

Quote:
Route Phase

Not to sure about this now.
The three broken 467s in N6 are adjacent to unbroken enemy units so need to route away.


its called rout

Quote:
The Leader, however is unbroken so can't.


yes he can, and without voluntarily breaking

Quote:
So looks like the broken units scarper and leave him behind. Oh well they have to rout to L7 for 3MF then can use another 3 MF to go to K8. So that's what they do. Leaving the Leader behind.


they can't rout adjacent to enemies. So they surrender, in theory.

Quote:
Now, if they take their CX, First Fire Counter(surely that should have been flipped to Final Fire) and DM counter with them I'll need to put new markers on the Leader. Think it's only the Final Fire and CX that applies to him.


CX & FF NA to broken units. FF markers have no use after the Movement Phase.

Quote:
Now, The broken US unit is next to an unbroken German Leader. Does that mean it has to rout away.


yes, because a leader is considered "armed" for this purpose.

Quote:
The 747 and Leader advance into N6 and have a CC marker placed on them.


turns to Melee after Ambush roll.

Quote:
Close Combat Phase.

Roll the dice for CC...
5 and 5 so the defender is eliminated.


both sides roll in CCPh, so leader gets a 1-8 attack.

Quote:
Will need to check what markers come off when


not wildly important. Their relevance and irrelevance is usually clear.
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Merric Blackman
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aforandy wrote:
Quote:
Rolling the dice...
6 and 4 plus the two so the 337 has failed so is broken and flipped.. It also failed by more than its ELR so is replaced by a .. no hold on! It has an underlined morale so that's not relevant.


I think the HS is disrupted, since its not a member of the SS/Japanese/Gurkha nutter tendency.


Not in the Starter Kits - they're just broken. (No Disrupt counters either).

Cheers,
Merric
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Merric Blackman
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aforandy wrote:
Quote:
arriving with a CX marker. There is no Defensive First Fire from N6 until 07 is reached, whereupon a 467 Defensive First Fires with the Leader using his DRM. Rolling the dice...
6 and 6.


doubles, so they Cower to the next lowest FP column.


Not so. The Leader is directing, so no cowering occurs.

Cheers,
Merric
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Mara Saurio
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kemosavage wrote:
Save yourself the headaches of learning that system and grab a copy of Conflict of Heroes when it becomes available in the US soon. You'll be worrying about tactics instead of rules!


Save yourself the headaches of reading these posts and write your own about Conflict of Heroes when it becomes available in the US!
 
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Richard Savage
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Mario,
I HAVE Conflict of Heroes, was one of the wise ones that pre-ordered it from L2 when it was first advertised. I'm not really knocking ASL, I'm not that foolish, I know the reverance with which it is held in wargaming circles everywhere. I've been playing it off and on since it first came out, having bought Squad Leader when that first came out, then transitioning over to ASL. I had added a on my first post knowing that I'd get some bricks thrown at me from the ASL'ers, but somehow it got edited out. They're both fine games in their own right.
 
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Mara Saurio
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I didn't mean to seem so serious!!!
What I didn't like about your comment is that after the effort the author made ("learning" and posting) the first answer was such as yours. Just that.
I'll take a deeper look at CoH, anyway!

By the way, who's Mario?

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Ooops, sorry Mara! I knew that it wasn't what the poster wanted to hear but after looking at the exhaustive analysis of one-half of a turn, I impulsively, (some might say recklessly) had to make that post about CoH. ASL is a passion, a committment even, and I didn't mean to make light of his hard hours of studying and analyzing, I should know, I've done the same thing with ASL. Mea Culpa.
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David Matchen
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MerricB wrote:
Broken units cannot be pinned (there's a special case when routing).

I've been trying to find this rule reference and I can't. Which rule am I overlooking? Thanks.
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Craig Benn
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Stewart,

the best way to learn the game is to play someone, then look at the rules - suddenly it'll all make sense.

The next Intensive Fire (an ASL tournament)in Bournemouth is nearly upon us (23-26 October) - see http://www.asltourneys.co.uk/if.html

There will be about fifty players of all standards around. Lots of them won't play in the tournament and will be around for casual games. Its very relaxed, and most people are there to get away from wives and kids and drink beer.

If you can't make it or dislike the idea of being trapped in a hotel full of sweaty wargamers then try http://www.vftt.co.uk/aslers.asp
Theres a list of local opponents.

If you live anywhere in the north west - give me a bell - we have a decent sized group.
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Jay Richardson
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David Matchen wrote:
MerricB wrote:
Broken units cannot be pinned (there's a special case when routing).

I've been trying to find this rule reference and I can't. Which rule am I overlooking? Thanks.

This, unfortunately, is one of those details that got lost in the translation from full ASL to ASLSK.

The ASLSK #3 rulebook does add a correction noting that broken units ignore PTC results – from which you might possibly infer that broken units can never be pinned – but they still need to spell it out explictly somewhere:

A broken unit can never be pinned (except by Interdiction during a rout); if a pinned unit subsequently breaks, remove the Pin counter.
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Mark Humphries
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aforandy wrote:

the target spent 3MF adjacent for three fire attacks.


I don't have a rulebook a hand, but I thought a firer is allowed a up to 2 fire attacks against any single expenditure of 2 or more MF.
 
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Robert Tegel
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Mark_WH wrote:

I don't have a rulebook a hand, but I thought a firer is allowed a up to 2 fire attacks against any single expenditure of 2 or more MF.

Hi,
the same unit or Weapon can never DFF or SFF or FPF on a moving unit in the same location more times than the number of MF/MP expended in that location during the MPhase(SK#3 RB page 14 left column),
so no 'up to 2 fire attacks' limit.

Best,
Robert
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