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Subject: You Can't (No, Really; Go Ahead & Try...) rss

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Shawn Dumas
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In order to say “logic is not absolute”, one has demonstrated the absolute nature of Logic in the very act of making their declaration.

“How so?” you ask!

Ok, you say that logic is not absolute, well then express your view without using any of the Laws of Logic.

You cannot.

One of the Laws of Logic is called the Law of Contradiction (Not both A and not-A.) A 'foo' may be both rough and smooth, but it cannot be both rough and smooth at the same time and in the same respect — it is rough in the water, smooth in the air. If it is rough and smooth at the same time, it cannot be rough and smooth in the same respect; one part, however small, will be rough, another smooth. Roughness and smoothness cannot at the same time and in the same way belong to a 'foo'.

The law of contradiction means something more though. It means that every word in the sentence "The line is straight" has a specific meaning. 'The' does not mean 'any', 'all', or 'no'. 'Line' does not mean 'dandelion' or 'doughnut'. 'Is' does not mean 'is not'. 'Straight' does not mean 'white', or anything else. Each word has a definite meaning. In order to have a definite meaning, a word must not only mean something, it must also not mean something. 'Line' means 'line', but it also does not mean 'not-line' — or 'dog', 'sunrise', or 'monkey'.

If 'line' were to mean everything, it would mean nothing; and no one, including you, would have the foggiest idea what you mean when you say the word 'line'. Otherwise saying, "Line, line line line line line; line" would mean "Yuck, the monkey has sniffed his rump; gross", and it would also mean, "Example, you call that a good example; idiot". The law of contradiction means that each word, to have a meaning, must also not mean something.

And so; anyone who says, “logic is not absolute” must use logic for that statement to even mean anything, thus undercutting his own argument.

So again, anyone saying that logic is not absolute, please express your view without using any of the Laws of Logic.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Line line line line line, LINE!
 
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William Boykin
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Cheeze, Wants Boots, Bacon, and a Duck.

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StOP mAkINNG SenSE!
 
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Jorge Montero
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I'll take Manhattan in a garbage bag. With Latin written on it that says "It's hard to give a shit these days"
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Can logic beat truthiness? I don't feel it can.
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Shawn Dumas
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LOL; I hear ya. And it's how you feel that's important.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." -Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"It used to be, everyone was entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts. But that's not the case anymore. [...] It's not only that I feel it to be true, but that I feel it to be true. There's not only an emotional quality, but there's a selfish quality." - Stephen Colbert

"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." -John Adams

But all joking aside; language, by its very nature, is impossible apart from logic, no?

 
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Kevin
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"Logic is absolutely the way the human brain processes data and thinks about the universe. We absolutely cannot escape our brains' tendency of putting things into the categories of A or ~A. However this could just be a weakness of how the human brain works. The universe, on some level, might operate totally differently than the way our language-processing centers do. It is the pinnacle of anthropocentic arrogance to assume that our brains' processing schema defines the way the universe works. It is entirely possible that the vaunted 'laws of logic' might be absolute in a limited sense (the way humans MUST think and talk about things) but non-absolute in a universal sense (the rules the universe fundamentally operates)."

Best,
Kevin

(It is not the case that I necessarily agree or not-agree with the above argument.)
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Kevin
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Veggie combo, hold the cheese, two sides of jalapenos. I always tip well, so hurry up!
 
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Matthew M
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Shawn Dumas
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"However this could just be a weakness of how the human brain works. [...]"

This, while ostensibly true, really has more to do with questions of epistemology, a topic I very much want to progress to, but first I wish to cover the inescapability of logic.

Yes, logic may well be tautological: Yes, arguing for the universality of logic requires circular reasoning (any argument with persuasive power needs to be logical; consequently we would be starting with the very thing we wish to conclude with). All true.

That does not, however, prevent us from all agreeing that to assert that the laws of logic are a sine qua non is to demonstrate that one posses something we all wish to claim to be a possessor of; namely rationality.

And as was said: It is all well and good to say that in the end one cannot know that logic is not a delusion. But, if that declaration is not merely an attempted to escape the force of an unpleasant argument, the one declaring misology must be forced to proffer an alternative. Any who deny logic must be pressed to communicate that dissent without using the laws of logic. No co-opting of the very thing being denied shall be allowed.

 
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Shawn Dumas
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dysjunct wrote:
Veggie combo, hold the cheese, two sides of jalapenos. I always tip well, so hurry up!


[stomach growls]
 
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Moshe Callen
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ἄνδρα μοι ἔννεπε, μοῦσα, πολύτροπον, ὃς μάλα πολλὰ/ πλάγχθη, ἐπεὶ Τροίης ἱερὸν πτολίεθρον ἔπερσεν./...
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μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος/ οὐλομένην, ἣ μυρί᾽ Ἀχαιοῖς ἄλγε᾽ ἔθηκε,/...
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dysjunct wrote:
Veggie combo, hold the cheese, two sides of jalapenos. I always tip well, so hurry up!


Dudle, The jalapen~os HAVE to be baked in.
 
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