Nathan Hoffmann
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With the original, a gaming group had the option of joking around and quoting Holy Grail, or they could role play it seriously and treat the game as a thematic and dramatic Arthurian adventure.

Now we can't. Days of Wonder has shattered all the verisimilitude and theme in their game for the sake of a cheap and easy laugh. Why not have a black card where Arthur gets hit in the face with a custard pie?
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Kevin Duke
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Quote:
option of joking around and quoting Holy Grail, or they could role play it seriously and treat the game as a thematic and dramatic Arthurian adventure.


Or doing both.

You can always pick and choose what you want to do with an expansion like Merlin...such as including a couple more characters into the base game and no other differences...including some of the white and black cards and not others...using the Travel cards with the base game but nothing else. Lots of options... including leaving the Travel cards out.
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Nathan Hoffmann
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kduke wrote:
You can always pick and choose what you want to do with an expansion like Merlin...


Okay, I choose to include the Travel cards without destroying the theme and making a mockery of Arthurian legends. Oh wait, I can't.
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Galen
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I actually thought the Monty Python jokes were funny...


back in the 1980s. They get old extremely fast.
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You do remember that the instruction book for the base game opens with a Monty Python reference too, right? It's more explicit in Merlin's Company, but it's not new to the game.
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Brian M
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This, um, is a joke. Right? It is, isn't it?
Its gotten so I really can't tell anymore.
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Devan Mellott
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So, you're saying that you can't just ignore it and play the game? Give me a break.
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Kevin Duke
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Quote:
or they could role play it seriously and treat the game as a thematic and dramatic Arthurian adventure
.


Yep, that's what he's saying.


 
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Nathan Hoffmann
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StormKnight wrote:
This, um, is a joke. Right? It is, isn't it?
Its gotten so I really can't tell anymore.


Why would this be a joke?

Megadev wrote:
So, you're saying that you can't just ignore it and play the game? Give me a break.


I could also ignore it if Merlin looked like MC Hammer and the Picts were all Simpsons characters, but I shouldn't have to. This is NOT a Monty Python game, and breaking theme like this for a cheap laugh is asinine.
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alan beaumont
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rydiafan wrote:
With the original, a gaming group had the option of joking around and quoting Holy Grail, or they could role play it seriously and treat the game as a thematic and dramatic Arthurian adventure. Now we can't.

You think we should take a story where strange women lying in ponds distributing metalware determines the head of government seriously?


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rydiafan wrote:
With the original, a gaming group had the option of joking around and quoting Holy Grail, or they could role play it seriously and treat the game as a thematic and dramatic Arthurian adventure.

Now we can't. Days of Wonder has shattered all the verisimilitude and theme in their game for the sake of a cheap and easy laugh. Why not have a black card where Arthur gets hit in the face with a custard pie?


I feel the same way -- I don't like them either.
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dcclark wrote:
You do remember that the instruction book for the base game opens with a Monty Python reference too, right? It's more explicit in Merlin's Company, but it's not new to the game.


I, for one, did not remember this. Now I'm annoyed at the base game, too.
 
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rydiafan wrote:
This is NOT a Monty Python game, and breaking theme like this for a cheap laugh is asinine.



I don't think we've ever made it through a game without a Monty Python quote.


Days of Wonder is just going with the flow.

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dcclark wrote:
You do remember that the instruction book for the base game opens with a Monty Python reference too, right? It's more explicit in Merlin's Company, but it's not new to the game.


This may be a hair that's less natural for others to split, but the rulebook isn't part of the game, in my eyes. Plus, given that the owner normally teaches, 90% of the people who play a game never read the rule book.

franklincobb wrote:
rydiafan wrote:
This is NOT a Monty Python game, and breaking theme like this for a cheap laugh is asinine.


I don't think we've ever made it through a game without a Monty Python quote.


My group, on the other hand, has never made one. No flesh wounds, no coconuts, nothing. To obvious, too easy, too cliche, and too likely to get us slapped.
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If you want to take the game seriously, just ignore all the text that isn't serious. It doesn't have any effect on the game. It's not as if there are any actual gameplay mechanics that are based on Monty Python jokes. None, whatsoever.
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If a dog owner doesn't clean up the steaming pile of feces their dog leaves in the middle of the sidewalk, I'm gonna be mad at that person. Me being able to step around the mudpie doesn't change the fact that the person who left it there is a moron and a jerk.

Whether the effect of a jerk move is manageable or avoidable, it's still a jerk move.
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alan beaumont
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rydiafan wrote:
If a dog owner doesn't clean up the steaming pile of feces their dog leaves in the middle of the sidewalk, I'm gonna be mad at that person. Me being able to step around the mudpie doesn't change the fact that the person who left it there is a moron and a jerk.

Whether the effect of a jerk move is manageable or avoidable, it's still a jerk move.

You seem a little upset.
Relax with one of the world's best comedy films.
I seem to remember something about a grail.
They don't get it. (Oops, given away the ending)
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rydiafan wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
This, um, is a joke. Right? It is, isn't it?
Its gotten so I really can't tell anymore.


Why would this be a joke?


Because normal, well-balanced people don't have such strong reactions to such silly things. The whole "ZOMG-I'M-PISSED-THE-GAME-IS-RUINED" thing is a bit much to take seriously.
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Nathan Hoffmann
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DavidT wrote:
rydiafan wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
This, um, is a joke. Right? It is, isn't it?
Its gotten so I really can't tell anymore.


Why would this be a joke?


Because normal, well-balanced people don't have such strong reactions to such silly things. The whole "ZOMG-I'M-PISSED-THE-GAME-IS-RUINED" thing is a bit much to take seriously.


I'm glad to discover that you're the person who gets to decide what opinions are valid. Can I get your phone number so that I can run any possible emotions I might experience in the future past you first, to make sure it's not silly or unbalanced?

Along those lines, would you deem it silly for me to be irritated that you put words in my mouth? I'm not sure if it would be unbalanced of me to point out that I never said the game was ruined (as you claim I did), only the THEME.

Also, I'm going to a wedding next week. Please contact me so I know what I'm allowed to think/feel. Thanks!
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rydiafan wrote:

I'm glad to discover that you're the person who gets to decide what opinions are valid. Can I get your phone number so that I can run any possible emotions I might experience in the future past you first, to make sure it's not silly or unbalanced?


You seem to mistake being an unbalanced loon for having an opinion. Might want to check that subtle distinction out.
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rydiafan wrote:
DavidT wrote:
rydiafan wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
This, um, is a joke. Right? It is, isn't it?
Its gotten so I really can't tell anymore.


Why would this be a joke?


Because normal, well-balanced people don't have such strong reactions to such silly things. The whole "ZOMG-I'M-PISSED-THE-GAME-IS-RUINED" thing is a bit much to take seriously.


I'm glad to discover that you're the person who gets to decide what opinions are valid. Can I get your phone number so that I can run any possible emotions I might experience in the future past you first, to make sure it's not silly or unbalanced?

Along those lines, would you deem it silly for me to be irritated that you put words in my mouth? I'm not sure if it would be unbalanced of me to point out that I never said the game was ruined (as you claim I did), only the THEME.

Also, I'm going to a wedding next week. Please contact me so I know what I'm allowed to think/feel. Thanks!
I don't think anyone thinks that you shouldn't have an opinion. In fact you are probably right, it may have been better to leave the text off the cards and the jokes or theme to the players imagination. I get that. We are a pretty silly gaming group at times, but generally we don't make monty python jokes when playing SOC, we are more serious like your group. So yeah I get your point.

However the way in which you express your points makes you seem rather "unhinged" or loony, I'm sure this isn't your intent, but if you go back and read your posts you might see this. Please don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with anything you have said, but I can see why people are reacting the way they are. Overall though I think the point you have made is an important one.
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ibn_ul_khattab wrote:
However the way in which you express your points makes you seem rather "unhinged" or loony, I'm sure this isn't your intent, but if you go back and read your posts you might see this. Please don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with anything you have said, but I can see why people are reacting the way they are. Overall though I think the point you have made is an important one.


I honestly don't see where I've said anything "loony" prior to DavidT's post. I would appreciate it if you pointed it out. I made a few examples of how destroying theme for easy laughs is a slippery slope (pies and MC Hammer) and made an analogy as to hew doing a dick thing is still a dick thing even if other people manage not to be hurt by it (not curbing your dog). I think these are valid points, and would be interested in how they appear "loony".

Gilby wrote:
You seem to mistake being an unbalanced loon for having an opinion. Might want to check that subtle distinction out.


You seem to mistake attacking people without instigation for being a worthwhile human being. Might want to check that subtle distinction out.
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It's also nice to see that attacking people for stating their opinion not only gets thumbs, but tips. Real faith-in-humanity stuff there.
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rydiafan wrote:
I'm glad to discover that you're the person who gets to decide what opinions are valid. Can I get your phone number so that I can run any possible emotions I might experience in the future past you first, to make sure it's not silly or unbalanced?


Just for clarity's sake:

I don't have a problem with your opinion. I personally like the Monty Python text, but I think your differing opinion is both valid and worthwhile. I was merely pointing out that your extremely strong reaction to the situation is difficult to take seriously. You wanted to know why someone might think you were joking, so I gave you the answer.

rydiafan wrote:
I honestly don't see where I've said anything "loony" prior to DavidT's post. I would appreciate it if you pointed it out.


I don't know about "loony"--I only accused you of reacting *very* strongly to a silly issue. Loony's a decent approximation, though. Here's a few examples of what comes off as a bit high strung:

rydiafan wrote:
I'm so pissed...


rydiafan wrote:
Days of Wonder has shattered all the verisimilitude and theme in their game for the sake of a cheap and easy laugh.


rydiafan wrote:
Okay, I choose to include the Travel cards without destroying the theme and making a mockery of Arthurian legends.


rydiafan wrote:
...breaking theme like this for a cheap laugh is asinine.


Whatever the merit of your opinion, your method of expressing it is overly harsh. Words like "shattered," "mockery," etc., are strong terms to throw around over the theme of a board game. We're talking about flavor text, here--text that never has to be read aloud unless you're inclined to do so.

As has already been pointed out, it's also text that is entirely consistent with the underlying Python-ish bent that has surrounded the game since the very beginning. The fact that you've ignored it up till now is proof that you can ignore it further.




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galeninjapan wrote:
I actually thought the Monty Python jokes were funny...
back in the 1980s. They get old extremely fast.


So, SO very true. Monty Python and the Holy Grail (in particular) used to be mildly amusing to quote WAY back in the day. Since tons of years worth of unoriginal wanna-be average-joe comedians have basically run any of these jokes into the ground, they're really not so funny, at all, anymore. They literally put me to sleep nowadays.

That being said, I can agree that it probably shouldn't have to ruin your experience since it's mainly flavor text, after all, but by the same token, I can't say that you don't have any right to be really upset. Different strokes for different folks. There are some things that REALLY set me off which other people would laugh off as ludicrous and vice versa.

I certainly don't think it's worth any of you guys in this thread bashing each other, though. Play nice, life is short.

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