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WASHINGTON - Deep-seated racial misgivings could cost Barack Obama the White House if the election is close, according to an AP-Yahoo News poll that found one-third of white Democrats harbor negative views toward blacks — many calling them "lazy," "violent" or responsible for their own troubles.

The poll, conducted with Stanford University, suggests that the percentage of voters who may turn away from Obama because of his race could easily be larger than the final difference between the candidates in 2004 — about two and one-half percentage points.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26803840

In my view political polls are no different than chanting to crystals, praying for peace or buying a lottery ticket to secure your retirement. But, since so many of the smug liberals who haunt RSP leap at every chance to trot out a poll that favors their candidate then I reckon you guys will have to accept this one as well... in the name of equality and inclusion. Yes?

Lovely huh? An entire third of the supposedly enlightened left turns out to be nothing more than a bunch of white trash crackers who think black people are trouble.

Well, at least you'll have something to whine about for the next four if Obama does lose. I'll be enjoying the show as you people try and figure out how to blame the conservatives for your own racists.
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Ken
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Quite the screed there. Does it surprise anyone that racism still exists? No. Are all Democrats "smug liberals?" No. Am I surprised at all by such a poll? No.

Let's remember that the south of the nation was solidly democratic until the Civil Rights Act was passed and signed into law. And it would be interesting to see what stereotypes got spouted by a survey of any racial group about any other racial group (say blacks about whites, Chinese about black/white, etc.). I suspect the archetypes would come to the fore in just about any of those. People like to generalize, which shouldn't surprise anyone.

But the only poll that ultimately matters is the one that will take place in November. And so far I'm liking Mr. Obama's chances.
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Yes, but the Republicans polled in that survey were problably not going to vote for Obama anyway.

Historically, there African American candidates have ALWAYS suffered from a dip between polling right before the election and the actual vote tally. A large part of that is that people don't want to admit that they harbor racial 'reservations' (or even outright bigotry) to people that they don't know. In the privacy of the polling box, however, they are free to vote however they feel.

The result is about 5-10% 'dip' in the returns from what people SAY they will vote, and what they actually do vote.

Sad, but unfortunately very true.

I, for one, HOPE that Obama can transcend that. If he wins, I hope that he wins outright. If he loses, I hope that there is no dip like that- because then, as DW Tripp points out, we're in for four more years of how 'racists' stole the election from Obama..... shake

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Yes, but the Republicans polled in that survey were problably not going to vote for Obama anyway.


Which is really the point isn't it?

Still, the poll, as are all political polls, is a bogus piece of clusterfucked sheep shit. Who are the people polled? How were the questions asked contextually? What was the sequencing? The setting? Were they live, phone, email, US Mail, etc.?

Even the vaunted "exit polls", as proved in the last election, are meaningless and enacted only as an attempt to influence late-voting citizens.

This election will likely be close because that's the way the electorate shakes out. Not that Americans, all 300 million of us, are evenly divided... I think that idea is even more bogus than this poll. But the people who actually do vote are fairly evenly split and will vote for reasons of their own. Some because they are afraid of Obama because he is black. But others because black, white or 14, he scares the shit outta them. Same goes for those who will vote for him and see McCain merely as less acceptable than Obama or, in their own mildly retarded fashion, view the election as a referendum on Sarah Palin.

Controlled experiments on human behavior have shown that a super-consciousness tends to emerge when groups of people are asked to observe a set of choices and then make a decision on which to pick... the classic being a choice between a red and green button that is wired to a graphic on a large screen... the emerging "mob" awareness tended to coalesce on one particular pattern before the graphic was displayed and while proving nothing, the experiments suggest that what an individual may think as a sole entity is subject to change in the right setting. And polls are not tools to describe actuality, they are tools to produce an actuality that the pollster has been hired to produce.
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Drew1365 wrote:
travistdale wrote:


What the heck? If someone asked me these questions I would refuse to answer. This poll suggests it's possible to make sweeping generalizations about an entire race -- its very existence is racist.

That I'm sure was the intent.
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whac3 wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
travistdale wrote:


What the heck? If someone asked me these questions I would refuse to answer. This poll suggests it's possible to make sweeping generalizations about an entire race -- its very existence is racist.

That I'm sure was the intent.


They asked about the wrong race.

Percentage of whites who describe Brian as:

violent
boastful
complaining
lazy
argumentative
screws around on messageboards
scheming
messy eater
thinks about sex a lot
sometimes has bad gas
bored
prideful
greedy

(Are all my 7 deadly sins covered?)
 
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It isn't hard to find racists. They'll usually let their views slip once in awhile.

Bigotry and prejudice aren't reserved for racists alone. I'd wager that most of the folks polled didn't consider themselves racists, and wouldn't support anything that say, a white-supremacy group would do, or support discrimination versus any racial group.

But that doesn't change the problem that deeply held fears and stereotypes can play, even subconsciously.

I've had a great deal of experience in this sort of dialogue-facilitation, mostly overseas in Northern Ireland. We aren't very good at it in the USA, though.

To have this sort of discussion, we must have a "safe place" for dialogue where people will be free to discuss both sides of the issue. You've got to get both parties together, in a moderated environment, with directed questions and responses.

One particular example is to get folks in a room and divide it into four squares. Each represents one of the four responses: I don't know, I agree, I disagree, and I don't wish to say.

Then, a series of questions are asked where folks are asked to silently stand in the box which best illustrates their answer to the question. The whole group does this simultaneously.

This illustrates physically the disparity of opinion in the room (imperfectly) in a profound way.

After this, each person is allowed to state why they are standing where they are standing, without interruptions from anyone else in the room, and they aren't allowed to respond verbally to a statement by anyone else who has spoken before them. They are to own their own values, and state their own opinions.

This really distills belief. Folks like me find themselves standing in a particular box without complete articulation as to why--and questioning whether the position (if controversial) is still held strongly.

I've changed many of my beliefs about absolute doctrine and political mantras due to such experiences. Because, the higher value of humanity and unity stood out to me. I was able to clearly define what was most important to me.

Know thyself. Then fix what you think you know.
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Looking at the way some black men are dressed and the music in mainstream media is it any wonder why white democrats are racist?

I almost guarantee you that all of these people in this poll that would initially seem 'racist'... show them a well dressed polite black man and said man won't be treated any differently than a well dressed polite white man (who I might add seem to be a lot rarer to find).

Truth is, a lot of young black men look scary, and look like they're about mug you. End of discussion. That's just the reality of the way a lot of them choose to dress.

IE: I agree and have huge respect for Bill Cosby
 
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This is not new news. Obama polls very differently based on race. The question is, will enough Whites vote for Obama, without regard for race. I dunno. Here's to hoping.
I suppose one could make hay discussing the fact that blacks and whites BOTH vote differently based on race. Is either side better? Dunno, but the differance is real on both sides.
 
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Hovercraft wrote:
Looking at the way some black men are dressed and the music in mainstream media is it any wonder why white democrats are racist?

I almost guarantee you that all of these people in this poll that would initially seem 'racist'... show them a well dressed polite black man and said man won't be treated any differently than a well dressed polite white man (who I might add seem to be a lot rarer to find).

Truth is, a lot of young black men look scary, and look like they're about mug you. End of discussion. That's just the reality of the way a lot of them choose to dress.

IE: I agree and have huge respect for Bill Cosby



Ummm, pants below your ass, oversized sports jersey's and a crooked baseball cap is scary? More comical to me than anything else. I suspect you are scared of the "difference" more than the look itself. It's not like they are wearing bandoliers, hockey masks and c-4 belts.
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TheChin! wrote:


Ummm, pants below your ass, oversized sports jersey's and a crooked baseball cap is scary? More comical to me than anything else. I suspect you are scared of the "difference" more than the look itself. It's not like they are wearing bandoliers, hockey masks and c-4 belts.


Comical does sum it up well. I'll never forget a (white) kid working in a pizza place that I saw "running" to answer the phone. Guess what with your pants down, the best you can do is kind of skip/gallop along.

But if you see a bunch of kids dressed "prison style" on one side of the street and a bunch of kids dressed like LDS proslytizers on the other which side will you walk down assuming that it's after dark and you have your family along?
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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But if you see a bunch of kids dressed "prison style" on one side of the street and a bunch of kids dressed like LDS proslytizers on the other which side will you walk down assuming that it's after dark and you have your family along?


To be honest, I'd steer my family away from any group of young males seemingly loitering on the street.

But a more realistic scenario and better illustrative would be thug-culture kids on one corner and African-garbed kids on another, and I would steer for the African-garbed kids as they probably would be at least respectful.

My real quandary would be, thug-culture kids on one corner and a group of males with greasy Hooters caps, mullets, Budweiser shirts and unwashed jeans on the other. My point being, any culture of people can produce undesirables you'd rather avoid.
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Morgan Dontanville
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qzhdad wrote:

But if you see a bunch of kids dressed "prison style" on one side of the street and a bunch of kids dressed like LDS proslytizers on the other which side will you walk down assuming that it's after dark and you have your family along?


I would take them on the LDS side so that my kids could hear me make fun of them.
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Moshe Callen
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I was thinking the kids might be safer with some prisoners than some missionaries.

sisteray wrote:
qzhdad wrote:

But if you see a bunch of kids dressed "prison style" on one side of the street and a bunch of kids dressed like LDS proslytizers on the other which side will you walk down assuming that it's after dark and you have your family along?


I would take them on the LDS side so that my kids could hear me make fun of them.
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I also find their dress style to become extremely comical not to mention bizarre. I've seen sweaters that basically look like a shag carpet was glued onto it.

I also find a lot of people dressed like that to have a bad attitude and well their louder and noisy than others, making them SEEM even more aggressive than other people. Whether or not it's true doesn't matter, appearance counts for a lot.
 
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I love when they ask some of the white voters in more rural areas questions about who they'll vote for.


"McCain," they'll say.


"Why not Obama?"


"Well, he's just...uh...I mean, I just don't know, he's...uh..."



You KNOW what they want to say. And caught in a live, television vise, their bug-eyed inability to "explain" is really, really humorous.

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