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Subject: Ebay to disallow Checks and Money Order payments rss

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Will
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Short version:
Starting in October, ebay (in the USA, at least to start with) will no longer allow Checks or Money Orders to be used through thier service. Essentially they are restricting payment to paypal or payment on pickup. They will also dissallow Google Checkout, amazon payments, etc.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...
Quote:
What's changing with payments on eBay?
Beginning in late October 2008, checks and money orders will no longer be allowed as payment methods on eBay. All items appearing on eBay.com must be paid for using either:

* PayPal (funded by PayPal account balance, credit card, debit card, bank account, PayPal Pay Later, PayPal Buyer Credit or eBay gift certificate)
* Credit or debit card payment to a seller (through a seller's Internet merchant account)
* ProPay
* Payment upon pickup

Also, they plan to eliminate any 3rd party checkout services
Quote:
Is eBay planning to eliminate third-party checkout?
Yes.


History:
Ebay has wanted a bigger slice of the pie ever since paypal came along. Eventually Ebay ended up purchasing paypal.
Near the begining of this year, ebay piloted a program in Austrailia (that was planned to go worldwide) to try and restrict payments in ebay to only paypal. They ran into trouble with legal/regulatory issues and the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, as well as consumer backlash.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/web/ebay-backs-down-on-paypal-cha...
Now they are trying again in a differant form, starting in USA (ebay.com). While they don't have announced plans to take this global, its a pretty sure bet that they will if they can get away with it in USA.

Now personally, I've rarely used checks or money orders on ebay, mostly for conveniance reasons. But I don't think its a good idea to just blanket BAN them. BGG users deal with a lot of international game sales/trades, and I'm thinking there are probably cases where a check or money order ends up being the only reasonable method to use.
Plus, what about people who don't want to use debit or credit cards period?

Anyway, just thought I'd give a heads up to the BGG community, I didn't see any post covering this in Buying and Selling after a quick perusal.
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Paul Boos
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Besides our own marketplace and Craigslist, what other outlets are there for selling games (as well as other items) that garner enough attention?

Paul
 
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Todd Pytel
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While I have no statistics to back this up, I'd imagine the number of listings paid by check/MO is tiny in comparison to Paypal sales. I'm sure they'll be happy to make a few extra bucks, but it seems much more likely to me that they prefer Paypal because it's easier to track and makes it easier to resolve disputes.
 
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Will
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tppytel wrote:
While I have no statistics to back this up, I'd imagine the number of listings paid by check/MO is tiny in comparison to Paypal sales. I'm sure they'll be happy to make a few extra bucks, but it seems much more likely to me that they prefer Paypal because it's easier to track and makes it easier to resolve disputes.

Or at least that is the reason they are going to state

Seriously though, there are ways to mitigate that without a blanket ban. Even if its a small minority of transactions/customers, wouldn't it be better to keep those customers rather than drive them off?

For instance, having a big warning when clicking on an ebay auction to pay by check or money order that says that ebay/paypal cannot protect you against fraud if you pay this way, are you sure you want to pay this way?
(kinda like how paypal annoyingly complains if you want to pay with credit card instead of bank account).

And that still doesn't fully explain how they are specifically banning google checkout and amazon payments. Those are still trackable.
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Mike Jones
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tppytel wrote:
While I have no statistics to back this up, I'd imagine the number of listings paid by check/MO is tiny in comparison to Paypal sales. I'm sure they'll be happy to make a few extra bucks, but it seems much more likely to me that they prefer Paypal because it's easier to track and makes it easier to resolve disputes.


I know I use to be a HEAVY ebay user and started filtering out any auctions that didn't take paypal. But, I do understand the concern about limited options. I do know several people that refuse to use paypal, but I guess the loss in customers will not be felt. Those auctions will probably still be won by someone, and even if they are slightly less they will ending value will be made up in paypal fees.

I guess the problem would be in people situated like me. An ebay user for 9 years, and while a vast majority of my transactions are purchases, a few have been sales. The past couple have used paypal, but I have the basic account so I can only take a little bit and don't pay fees, but then use it for purchases. But, if I was ever in the NEED for some cash, I wouldn't want to take paypal only payments (I'd need the cash), so it may be that little affect on buyers and 'large' sellers, I wonder if it will scare away some of the once in a while sellers.
 
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Robert Stetler
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When PayPal was first on the eBay scene they were practically worthless for dispute resolution. They required you wait for the seller to the point you could no longer leave feedback for the item on eBay, and then they would only refund up to the amount the seller actually had remaining in their PayPal account (which, of course, would have long since been drained). They've come a fair ways since, but I've not forgotten the empty claims they made then and question whether their current "services" warrent the cost now.

For me the deciding factors on who I'll buy from on eBay remains the reputation of the seller and the item being sold. Payment method remains secondary. By habit and convenience I do most of my purchases there by PayPal (though I bid on eBay *much* less often than I used to, I seem to much more rarely find things I'm looking for), but I suspect a noticeable reduction in item variety may result from this change. Often the ludites who refuse electronic payment are the ones selling something I want.
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In the past year and four hundred sales, I have had exactly two that have paid via MO/cashier's check, and not PayPal. Quite honestly, this is really a non-issue and getting a PayPal account, regardless of eBay's intentions, will be the cost of doing business on eBay.
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James King
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Yargo wrote:
Short version:
Starting in October, ebay (in the USA, at least to start with) will no longer allow Checks or Money Orders to be used through thier service. Essentially they are restricting payment to paypal or payment on pickup. They will also dissallow Google Checkout, amazon payments, etc.
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=4&cam...
Quote:
What's changing with payments on eBay?
Beginning in late October 2008, checks and money orders will no longer be allowed as payment methods on eBay. All items appearing on eBay.com must be paid for using either:

* PayPal (funded by PayPal account balance, credit card, debit card, bank account, PayPal Pay Later, PayPal Buyer Credit or eBay gift certificate)
* Credit or debit card payment to a seller (through a seller's Internet merchant account)
* ProPay
* Payment upon pickup

Since credit or debit card payments would be used mostly by full-fledged Internet merchants and not necessarily most sellers, this is really disheartening news. After all, I stopped using PayPal back in June 2006 after a Lithuanian user had somehow hacked another eBay user's account and iniitated the purchase of several hundred dollars' worth of car-stereo equipment on eBay and paid for it through PayPal (owned by eBay) using my credit-card information. Neither eBay nor PayPal was ever able to explain how the Lithuanian was successfully able to do that.

When I did a Google News Search back in June 2006, I was startled to learn quite a news stories about hackers' success in infiltrating and exploiting holes in both eBay's and PayPal's security. Only one PayPal representative whom I spoke to by telephone was candid enough to express relief that I didn't have a full-fledged PayPal account containing my bank account number; otherwise, the hacker might well have cleaned me out altogether.

If eBay had instead limited money orders to only U.S. Postal Money Orders with confirmation of their serial numbers and amounts within a certain number of days of an item's purchase, I might well have understood. However, it would appear that eBay wants buyers to take an inordinate amount of risk beyond that which is reasonable, given the state of Internet security as it stands today (which is to say, not much progress has been made to earn most people's peace of mind). I think it also speaks volumes that eBay has yet to curb the most predatory practice of some, if not many, of its sellers: unreasonably high shipping & handling rates way above and beyond the actual shipping cost should be.

I would encourage any eBay shopper who isn't confident about the security of PayPal to consider voicing your sentiment to individual sellers from whom you might otherwise have ordered something from that you would have bid and/or bought something from them if you'd been given the option of sending a U.S. Postal Money Order.

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Iain K
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pmboos wrote:
Besides our own marketplace and Craigslist, what other outlets are there for selling games (as well as other items) that garner enough attention?

Paul


I like the consimworld forum ...
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Rick Vinyard
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pmboos wrote:
Besides our own marketplace and Craigslist, what other outlets are there for selling games (as well as other items) that garner enough attention?


It doesn't seem nearly as big as eBay, but there's always eBid (http://ebid.net). They have free auctions, or a 2% FVF with a free gallery auction... and they accept Google Checkout.

For games I've had better luck with the marketplace here on BGG, but for other stuff eBid isn't bad.
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VETRHUS of Rogaland
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Well, that will end my relationship with eBay as a buyer and seller.

I have a paypal account, and do sell on occasion.

Ever since eBay bought paypal, the fees have become more and more significant, and more and more like selling in a consignment shop.

This is the sort of decision which will be met with intense backlash, much like Wal-Mart's plan to eliminate the use of checkcards at their stores.

That plan was squashed by backlash from customers, and it is certainly possible that this will also happen in this case.

We must speak loudly though. Paypal is an intrusive and costly tool, and this ia a case of corporate monopolization which may require federal intervention.

But then again, there are some other issues which have their attention right now.
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George Kinney
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I've been using eBay and Paypal for a really long time, and I've never accepted anything but Paypal payments on ebay auctions, and seeing 'no paypal' on an auction listing is a instant 'no sale' in my book unless its an item that I need in a extreme way.



 
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Tim K.
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The clock for someone to create an ebay killer ticks more loudly with each passing ebay policy change. None of their changes in the last 5 years have been an improvement for users.
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Ken
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Once again Ebay works tirelessly to drive away customers. yuk
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Will
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Gecko23 wrote:
I've been using eBay and Paypal for a really long time, and I've never accepted anything but Paypal payments on ebay auctions, and seeing 'no paypal' on an auction listing is a instant 'no sale' in my book unless its an item that I need in a extreme way.

Right, but would you ban everyone else from using those even if you dont?
 
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Paul Boos
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Iain and Rick, Thanks for y'alls follow-ups; I will definitely check those out.

I for one was a seller and a buyer that used/accepted Paypal sometimes and other times preferred to use/accept Money Orders. I liked using Money Orders as it was a way to control spending habits; I saved a bit weekly to put aside for a purchase, when something came along I wanted, I only got it if I had put enough away. Since I also actively sold as well, I would simply buy a money order and mail it when I was mailing out other's purchases. I liked accepting Money Orders as it cut down on the fees.

eBay is out of touch with what sellers need. You can't easily leave negative feedback, you can't avoid Paypal fees (with these new changes), the eBay fee restructuring doesn't help you if you are a low volume seller (I certainly am), you can't openly say you are charging for your Paypal fees, etc.

I'll probably still purchase on eBay from time to time, but I think I am moving on for selling to something more flexible.

Cheers!
Paul
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Greg Fleischman
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Here's why I welcome eBay's decision and hope it is mandated world wide:
1. I want to buy games on eBay.de but too many sellers only accept an uberweisung (bank transfer). There are no checks in Germany and there are no easy ways of getting payment safely to eBay.de sellers.
2. As a buyer (eBay and elsewhere), it keeps my credit card info from being too spread out
3. As a buyer, why would you not want to use Paypal??--it's free for purchasers, it eliminates waiting for an MO or the hassle of writing a check and then having to send the payment.
3. As a seller on eBay USA (with 890+ 100% feedback), I do not accept checks or MOs because they are a pain to wait for and I am ready to move the items won on the day the auction is finished (makes for great feedback!).
4. I don't think mandating Paypal-only payment would drive away customers at all. If you're savvy enough to be using eBay to begin with, it's one small step for man (apologies to Neil Armstrong) to go to Paypal.
5. If fees get too exorbitant, I am sure there are many entrepreneurs waiting on the sidelines to provide alternatives.

Even if eBay wants a bigger slice of the payment pie, I just don't see a problem here, only benefits (and remember, it's sellers like me who pay the Paypal fees--but I heartily accept them as the cost for doing good business).
 
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Lyman Moquin
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yeah, having sold over 100 games on ebay, many internationally, I haven't had a SINGLE transaction that wasn't paypal - even though I stated that you could pay by check or money order if you contacted me. As a seller, it's the cost of time. I just don't feel like having to wait up to a week to get a check, up to 5 days to clear a check, and THEN get the product moving. . . . if ebay can survive the latest round of upping costs to sellers, this they surely can survive. . . although, based on what I've seen on the geek lately, auctions seem to be working out fairly well here. . . especially if you are selling lots. . .
 
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Bill J
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What about the current state of the economy in the U.S.? I know that I have moved towards making more cash/check transactions instead of using the credit card. I believe that I am personally better off for doing so. If ebay is going to mandate that I buy using a credit card driven mechanism like Paypal, I will be making my purchases elsewhere. Bye, ebay.
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Michael Berg
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It might have something to do with bogus customers as well - its a lot easier to fraud someone out of payment with a check than it is paypal. Between bad checks and "Sure, its in the mail" comments... I haven't really liked ebay since they took over Paypal, though, so this just gives me another reason to stay away.

Google's sure to have an auction site at somepoint.
 
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This basically comes down to pure greed.
When ebay first took over paypal there was a sharp rise in transaction fees, now this...

Basically they are ensuring that they get multiple cuts out of every transaction, you already pay a substantial listing fee, final value fee and then poor paypal exchange rates followed by further transfer fess, and they're tryong to make sure that you have to give them every cut, every time.

Ebay already makes massive profits, they did way back before they even got the paypal cuts on top, why do they have to keep grasping for more.

Just on hits and advertising there is room for an auction site to make more than enough profit without any user fees whatsoever, hopefully this will help pave the way for other services to get a foothold.
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Personally, it's almost a non issue. I virtually abandoned ebay a long time ago. Most of my used game purchases are from the BGG Marketplace and my wife occasionally buys something off of craigslist.
 
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eBay has long since ceased to be a cost effective way to acquire just about anything. Used to be I'd tell people, "anything you could possibly be looking for, chances are you'll find it on eBay". With the move toward "storefront" sellers this has become less and less true, and Craigslist has been a TRUE eBay killer for a lot of types of goods (obviously particularly things that are large and difficult to ship). I have not bought anything from eBay in some time, and only recently liquidated about 10 games there, but if I'd been aware of the ability to host "auctions" here on BGG at the time, I'd have done that instead. EBay has become the "dollar store" of the internet. I've never been a high-volume user (buying or selling) but my volume has dropped off the map in the last 18 months, and most likely won't ever move back up. So I guess I don't really care
 
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Subhan Michael Tindall
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I do most of my used game selling through Amazon now - you have to tweak your pricing a little bit as the 'shipping credit' basically just covers the listing fees, but it's way easier to deal with than e-bay, items list for 60 days with a 1-click renewal, & no fee if things don't sell.
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Ken B.
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GOSH-A-ROONIE!


G'bye, ebay. Don't need you anymore. I hope this little bout of self-interested fascism leads to a true ebay killer emerging.


Sellers have been grumbling for quite some time about ebay changes...hey, looks like ebay wants to add buyers to the list of grumblers as well.


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