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Subject: Memoir 44 vs Tide of Iron rss

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I'm hoping someone who has played both of these two can give me a bit of feedback on which of the two games is the better one. (In your opinion of course) Both games have ratings very close to one another on here, so I can't really judge it by that. I'm looking for a good WWII board/miniatures game, akin to flames of war, without the $$$ investment as I doubt I could get everyone else in my group behind the investment besides myself.

Miniature and board wise, I'm thinking I like Tide of Iron's pieces a little more but not enough to sway me one way or another. The only other stipulation I have is that the gaming group I play with tends to have at most 6 players, while we average out to 3 or 4 regular players, so I'm hoping one or the other may play well with 3 or 4 people.

I'm open to any and all suggestions, including any games beyond just these intital two I listed that you think may work better for the ammount of players I may have show up.

Thanks in Advance,
 
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Go with Tide of Iron. If you really like the card play system of Memoir, just get Battlelore or C&CA. Then, you'll have the best of both worlds without too much emphases on WW2 action.
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Scott Roberts
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I have played both extensively, probably my two most played games. They are both good games. They are so different that I don't really even see them as competitors in spite of thier WWII theme.

I would go with M44 if you want a light, fast, luck driven game. One fantastic thing about M44 IMO is its speed of play. I have fairly limited play time, usually no more than 2 hours at a time, but I can get in two games of M44 in that time. You can play a scenario and then switch sides. M44 is easier to learn than TOI. Being a card driven game, the strategy in M44 tends to be limited, as you don't know what cards you will have.

I would go with TOI if you want a more strategic and tactical game with less emphasis on luck (although luck is present in the dice rolls). TOI is harder to learn (not that it is hard, but it will take longer than M44). It has a fantastic system that is easy compared to a lot of wargames, yet with great tactical and strategic variety. A major downside for TOI is the lack of good scenarios although that is improving with good fan support. The scenario book that comes with TOI is a waste IMO. I play short scenarios in TOI and they last about 2 hours, so there is longer play time. The scenarios in the book are long and generally last much longer (4-8 hour range, at least for our group). Still, there are a number of short scenarios available, and you might have the 2 hour limit I do.

Scott
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James Palmer
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If you don't mind the lack of miniatures, may I suggest Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42?

It is another fast tactical WWII game that is easy to learn.

It also works with up to 4 players.
 
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Dr ?
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I just purchased Tide of Iron at Gen Con and got the expansion Days of the Fox last week. I owned Memoir 44, the Russian expansion and cold weather board.

I a short time, I have played more Tide of Iron than I ever played memoir 44 (and I have had that for several years!). No comparison for me. In addition, as new scenarios become available there will be no doubt.

For nongamers, Memoir 44 is more friendly. However, My Dad is a nongamer and had fun flamethrowing my younger brother. Tide of Iron has so much more depth! Just my humble opinion...
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Michael Gill
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As a quick note, TOI supports up to four players. Haven't tried this, so I can't comment on how well this works.
 
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If Actions Speak Louder Than Words, Then Actions x2 Speak Louder Than Actions
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Both games really are two-player games. Overlord and ToI 3-4 player claims are afterthoughts.
 
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Thanks for all the input guys! I'll run what everyone has said by my group the next time we meet. (And let them know I'm I'm leaning more towards ToI)

Thanks again!
 
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C Lloyd
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broken clock wrote:
Go with Tide of Iron. If you really like the card play system of Memoir, just get Battlelore or C&CA. Then, you'll have the best of both worlds without too much emphases on WW2 action.

My thoughts exactly, which is why I went with BattleLore & TOI.
 
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Mark Buetow
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But are you looking for a game with miniatures that plays like a boardgame (your two options) or a miniatures game that doesn't have miniatures?

If it's the latter, there are some pretty good rules out there for using plain old cheap plastic Army Men!
 
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Malacandra wrote:
But are you looking for a game with miniatures that plays like a boardgame (your two options) or a miniatures game that doesn't have miniatures?


I would say more of the "miniature game that plays like a boardgame" at this point... Reason being, I have always been into more miniature games (Warhammer 40k & Fantasy, Hordes, Warmachine, and so on) and have only recently started playing with a group that plays regular boardgames. ToI and M44 are my attempt to find a middleground between Minis and boardgames to get my "minature fix" when the group and I play.
 
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Mark Buetow
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Good luck. I think both games will fall short in that regard. There's a certain quality of miniatures games (measured movement and buckets of dice with hits, penetration, etc.) that is not at all present in the those games.

You may just have to settle for boardgaming when it's boardgaming time and minis when it's minis time!
 
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Colin Hunter
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Firstly as others have stated they are different games and meet different needs, but my primary feelings on the subject are...

Memoir 44: Easier to learn and quicker to play. It has a lot less "simulation" value, but hell ToI and flames or war are very poor simulations anyway (nothing wrong with that), so I doubt it is a big issue, but generally speaking I would M44's weakness is that for WWII the system doesn't "feel" very accurate. Personally this isn't a big issue in this sort of game. On the bright side M44 is a deeper more interesting game. I think the card play element, once you get used to it, allows for more long term positioning actions, so in terms of replayability. This may be a bit counter intuitive as ToI is more complex, but I do think that the quality of long term decision making in M44 is better than ToI.

There are tons of scenarios and expansions for M44, the quality of components is good, perhaps every so slightly worse than ToI, but you would spitting hairs to be honest.

One thing that many people don't like about memoir 44 is that if constrains your ability to move and control troops. If you are used to FoW this will be a big obstacle to overcome. FoW has no command and control rules, while M44 is quite restrictive. Personally I feel this improves the quality of decisions and the tension in the game, as you must keep track of what cards will come up and what cards have been played.

Tide of Iron: Tide of Iron, is a heavier more complex game. It represents units in more detail (differenced betwen tanks and different infantry units). The base game has no artillery, which I find very odd in a WWII game, but the expansion adds it. The game feels much more like a wargame and there is generally more simulation, differenced between assaults and firing (other than just range), MGs and Infantry, and lots of other stuff.

ToI is not based around cards to move and use your troops, so you have much more freedom of movement. I don't mind this, it is very standard in most wargames, but it is quite different. ToI is significantly longer and has serious issues of balance within their scenarios, this significantly hampers your ability to replay almost all of them, they become more like puzzels than games. Some of the scenarios are more interesting, but the base game scenario balance is terrible.

Ultimately I suspect you may like ToI more, it "feels" more realistic, but I think it is the worse "game" in terms of replayability and depth of play. However I started with FoW and probably would have rather gone with ToI first, as they are more closely related, in the long run though M44 has been the more enjoyable game.
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