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Subject: They are selling a strategy guide? rss

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Graham Smallwood
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http://www.thoughthammer.com/product_info.php?products_id=58...

No, no way. Screw this. I can't believe I was excited about this game. It's like I totally forgot what company was publishing it. Warmachine and Hordes started to suck as the tournament lists and tricks became known and the game devolved to website lists playing each other. But now they are going to sell all that info before the game even comes out? There is no way I'll blind buy in to a community to trade and play with when everyone is instantly a multi-year playtest veteran.

Anyone at my house who reads a strategy guide gets thrown in the pool. The whole point of playing a game is playing the game. The very notion of this product is an abomination. Play like you have a brain, Privateer.
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Dan Sulin
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I'm sorry. What Warmachine game were you playing. I am unaware of the game you refer to. The Warmachine game I play involves people playing different lists every week and finding cool new tricks(even with just Prime models). Sounds like your problem is less with the game and more with the people you play with.

I don't see any problem with a strategy guide. Just because you have a strategy guide doesn't mean you will always win. I am sure Hilter had a strategy guide or two and his Giant Monsters didn't win WWII
 
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Graham Smallwood
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nilus wrote:
I'm sorry. What Warmachine game were you playing. I am unaware of the game you refer to. The Warmachine game I play involves people playing different lists every week and finding cool new tricks(even with just Prime models). Sounds like your problem is less with the game and more with the people you play with.

I don't see any problem with a strategy guide. Just because you have a strategy guide doesn't mean you will always win. I am sure Hilter had a strategy guide or two and his Giant Monsters didn't win WWII


Sorry, not a Warmachine thread. Pretend I said "Similar balanced-high tactical games (of which PP has published two) suffer the problem of..."

My problem with strategy guides is not about winning. It's about not playing the game. Every idea you read in a strategy guide is one that you are losing the ability to have come to yourself. This book in particular will amass the knowledge of incredibly hardcore playtesters (rumored to be robots at PP) gathered over a span of years. This book being available at launch sucks all of the joy out of the exploratory time at the launch of a new game where discovering "cool new tricks" is so interesting.

The pool rule I have makes it so my friends know not to destroy the gaming experience by taking shortcuts, but the blind collectible nature of this game nearly requires one to play out in the wild in a store environment of strangers. I won't play someone who is not there to game, but is only there to win. So I won't play a game that encourages that.

I swear, I am going to gather my Gaming rants in to a gospel one day. I have Commandments ready and everything.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Dorque wrote:
Every idea you read in a strategy guide is one that you are losing the ability to have come to yourself.


Then don't read it.
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Tom Grant
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Geosphere wrote:
Dorque wrote:
Every idea you read in a strategy guide is one that you are losing the ability to have come to yourself.


Then don't read it.


If I understand Graham correctly, he wants something like the competitive experience that starts with a new CCG, or the newest edition of a game like Warhammer 40,000. People buy the game, start exploring what all the components can do, build strategies over time...He gets his jolt from a combination of competition and discovery. It also sounds as though he wants the chance to get really good at a game slightly faster than other players.

Still, you might just play the game because you get to smash cities with giant monsters.
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Bill H
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If it's anything like the "strategy guides" I've seen before (MtG, Rage, Jihad/Vampire, etc.) he's got nothing to worry about. The official strategy guides often contain nothing that isn't obvious from a skim of the rules.

It's the genre magazines that identify killer combos and list tourney-winning "decks".
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Graham Smallwood
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Kingdaddy wrote:
If I understand Graham correctly, he wants something like the competitive experience that starts with a new CCG, or the newest edition of a game like Warhammer 40,000. People buy the game, start exploring what all the components can do, build strategies over time...He gets his jolt from a combination of competition and discovery.


Yes! That. Imagine in MtG if when a new expansion came out the directions were published with the top four tournament decks from a year in the future. It doesn't help if I don't read it, I'd need everyone at my FLGS to not read it for the competitive environment to be pure.

The game will probably be fun with friends just kicking monster butt, but I was excited to try to get in to a competitive scene for the first time. Jumping in to MtG is like trying to cross the race car line on the sixth level of Frogger.

Kingdaddy wrote:
It also sounds as though he wants the chance to get really good at a game slightly faster than other players.


I do worry this about myself sometimes. But in situations like Commishing Blood Bowl for a bunch of rookies or teaching Agricola to a bunch of noobs, I always just referee or play goblins (respectively ) because I want the casual experience to be good for everyone. But when I lose to someone in a competitive environment I want to know when I shake their hand afterwards that I lost to them and not to the person who told them how to play.

My copay is in GG, doctor. Thanks for the introspection.
 
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Bwian, just
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Dorque wrote:
Kingdaddy wrote:
If I understand Graham correctly, he wants something like the competitive experience that starts with a new CCG, or the newest edition of a game like Warhammer 40,000. People buy the game, start exploring what all the components can do, build strategies over time...He gets his jolt from a combination of competition and discovery.

Yes! That. Imagine in MtG if when a new expansion came out the directions were published with the top four tournament decks from a year in the future. It doesn't help if I don't read it, I'd need everyone at my FLGS to not read it for the competitive environment to be pure.

Well, the strategy guide is out, and I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be. Yes, there are "tournament decks" for each monster, but they're all pretty obvious: "Does your monster make shooty units better? Take lots of shooty units!" and that sort of thing. I haven't read the whole thing cover to cover yet, but I have yet to run across something and say, "Really? That's weird...". Well, except for their strategy puzzle: the given solution is actually sub-optimal. Which I suppose would be a good thing, if I were worried about spoiling the competitive environment .

It's a decent reference, with spoilers for all the figures and maps. It has a consolidated Ability list. It comes with two interesting maps. I don't feel I wasted my $15. I also don't feel that it's going to allow me to crush newbs beneath my feet arrrh .
 
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