Nate Y
msg tools
I played Firefight 2 with a friend and don't see how the Russians have a chance to win unless they get lucky.

My opponent setup the MMG with a rifle squad in the stone house. One other rifle unit was elsewhere on the board and 2 rifles were hidden.

As Germans I spent 2 CAP to help win first round initiative.

Then I activated the forward LMG/rifle stack and the stack behind the forward stack. I fired on the MMG in the stone house with 10 FP (4 + 3 + 2 CAP) needing a 5 or better against the MMG DV of 14. In retrospect we played this wrong and I should only have had a 8 FP because the rearmost rifle squad was not in range. I made my rolls against both units and the Russians spent 3 CAP to move the units out of the house and out of LOS.

I think my opponent made a small mistake by setting up the rifle squad in the same hex as the juicy MMG target, but otherwise I don't think his play was too bad.

The perfect play for the Germans seems to be: spend 2 CAP to gain initiative first then spend 3 more CAP to active the forward stack and fire at the MMG in the stone house. With a modified FP of 8 the Germans have an 72% chance to score a hit on the MMG. About 1/4 of the time he will roll a 10 or better to get an insta-kill. Even without the insta-kill roll there is a chance to draw the killed token. Failing that there is a decent chance to draw a pinned, or stunned token that leaves the MMG exposed to subsequent fire. Once the MMG is eliminated I don't see how the soviets can stop a German rush to the hut on turns 2 and 3.

Obviously the Germans are not guaranteed to win initiative even by spending the CAP. And there is a slight chance the MMG survives the initial volley unscathed. But it seems that most of the time the Germans will have a huge advantage after the first volley.

Even if the Soviets win initiative and eliminate an LMG/rifle stack the Germans still have 8+CAP and 6 units to respond with.

Am I missing something regards to Soviet hiding strategy? It seems like each hidden Soviet unit at best eliminates 1 unit before exposing itself and being gunned down by the German response.

How do the Soviets stop a solid German advance down the middle?



2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Buetow
United States
McHenry
Illinois
flag msg tools
Combat Commander Archivist
badge
Move! Advance! Fire! Rout! Recover! Artillery Denied! Artillery Request! Command Confusion...say what?!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played several of the firefights. I've though they were too hard for the side I was playing. Until I played the other side and lost and realize...maybe it isn't the scenario...soblue
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Hill
United States
Wilmington
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Interesting. The only game of this scenario we played ended with a Russian victory. In my opinion, the Russian player needs to be patient and not panic even if his MMG gets eliminated. The Germans still have to occupy the stone building hex to gain control. I think trying to delay the German advance rather than trying to take them on straight up would be of better tactical use. Shoot and run, don't stay too long in spots where the Germans can concentrate fire power. Try to position Russian units so the Germans don't have an easy walk up the map to the main objective. You are right that the Russians can't match German firepower in this scenario, but two of the Russian units can start the game hidden and this will mess with German plans if they try to move non-cautiously across the open terrain. Moving through the woods will slow the Germans down and so will cautious movement. The Russian player should try to end each turn as quickly as possible since they are in a defensive posture. The Russians also receive reinforcements on turn three to help sure up their position.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
nolan Guthrie
United States
Nampa
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
It is a wargame!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
In my opinion, the Russian player needs to be patient and not panic


I agree with this statement especially for the first turn. I have played this scenario only once and I as the Russians won. My opponent won the initiative the first round and after his first activation I actually passed and let him go again. As soon as his units moved passed my hidden rifles I opened fire and took out some grouped units very early. The Russians have to stack up points early in my opinion, I feel the longer this scenario goes the more it favors the Germans. I could be wrong on this point.
Nolan
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rion Hanson
United States
Juneau
AK
flag msg tools
Well On firefight 4 the Russians pulled out a close victory by having some very well placed hidden units (anti tank on top of the central hill) and waiting till all my units got bunched up in the town to reveal themselves catching me in a vulnerable position. Its a very balanced firefight because the Russians are scoring 2 vp every round until the Germans can make it clear across the map. Firefight 4 is a very balanced scenario imo, but I havnt played past it yet also.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nate Y
msg tools
Nolan,

What did the German do on the first activation? Did he eliminate the MMG or did he just advance groups? In a couple session reports it sounds like the German players move into cover right away. That seems like a mistake.

I'm not seeing how the Soviets can flank the Germans if the German player knows what to do. As long as the Germans stay away from the woods they can't be ambushed in close combat. If the LMGs stay back and provide cover fire then how can the Soviets attack without being eliminated? The Germans have 10 CAP to get FP bonuses and activate LMG opportunity fire.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rion Hanson
United States
Juneau
AK
flag msg tools
I think alot of it depends where the soviets place their hidden units.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
uwe eickert
United States
Fremont
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Players having trouble with firefight 2 should allow the Soviets to activate first. I also recommend not to stack rifle units with the MMG!

Uwe
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Igor Kwiatkowski
Poland
Warszawa
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've only played this firefight once, the Russian side, and it was a close loss, I could've won.

So it went like this: on my first activation I shot with my MG, then the reaction shot killed it instantly (the Germans rolled 12) but I didn't give up. I hid my 2 rifle squads in the forest to the left of the objective house (looking from the Russian side) and activated when the Germans were halfway through the forest, with all the units used and no CAPs. I killed 4 or 5 units, probably 2 of which were MGs (I can't remember exactly) and slowed them down considerably. As I said already I lost but it was very close. The funny thing is I found the reinforcements pretty useless because the MG couldn't even get in a firing position, or get any LOS to be precise.

So I say the firefight is balanced, and a very fun one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gene Baker
United States
Ocean Springs
Mississippi
flag msg tools
badge
Games with dragons, spaceships, and bears aren’t wargames. Call them conquest games or strategy games or crap but they aren’t wargames.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I know of 6 six people who have played this scn, inc myself. In all three games the Russian MMG was taken out in the first Axis turn first thing.

I haven't read the rules so I don't if we played it right or not.

I know that my Lock N Load playing hurt me. Have to readjust my tactics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jody
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
sometimes i think people let me win just so they can hear my lengthy victory speeches
Avatar
mb
The German Enemy will likely group move forward on their first action (only three have LOS and range initially?) to get closer to the MMG..so why not react and save the Russian MMG, by sending it East behind the building out of LOS?

Hopefully with an action card so you don't use CAPs or Opportunity and can bring it back when all the German units have been used.


p.s. how the heck are the germans supposed to get a LOS to 2C10 in turn 1?
i suppose you could use 7AP + 10CAP to move one unit way down south but that seems insane.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Colin Houghton
United Kingdom
London
London
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Just played firefight #2.

The devastating opening fire from the Germans (as in Nate Y's attack, and ref to Gene Baker's comments)) did good stuff as expected, and the Germans managed to get in sight of the road by Turn 4, and into the Stone building by the end.

However it seems to me that if the Russians were allowed to go first (as Uwe suggests) then it may well be worth withdrawing the Soviet Maxim to the hex behind the stone building to keep it safe, and then move it back into the building to fire, near the end of a German turn, when there's little danger of significantreaction fire.

Also, reveal the soviet hidden units once the Germans have passed them, so you can fire at their flank, and with an uncautious move advantage, bringing their firepower up to a healthy 4, versus a Defence -1.

Will try this solo this evening (using a standard 7 APs and my set of 36 cards simulating all possible 2D6 rolls for each side, to iron out some of the die vagaries).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Hayes
United States
Savoy
Illinois
flag msg tools
I played this last week as the Germans and lost to the Russians 10VP to 7VP. As the Germans, I was unable to knock out the Russian MMG until Turn4 (really really bad rolls) which made things very difficult for me. I ended up having to take my units south into the woods. Not knowing where he placed his hidden units, my units in the woods were facing in all directions to hopefully cover myself in case he waited until I went past him. I eventually overtook the objective, but was unable to get LOS at the road and lost too many units. It was one of those games were your opponent keeps rolling 11's and 12's and you roll 2's and 3's. Hard to win no matter how good your strategy is with rolls like that.

Today, we flipped sides and I immediately lost my MMG sitting on the stone house on the first turn. ARGH!. I setup my two visible units in the village, but out of LOS and my two hidden units strategically in the woods just south of his starting position. I kept passing so that I could see his movement and react. My hope was that he'd go south through the woods and exit there. He did and as two of the German LMG's passed by me, I revealed one of my hidden units and attacked his flank with a +3, a +2 card, and +2 using CAPs. My roll was a 12 and instantly killed the unit. My next turn, I did the same thing to his other LMG and killed it off. So my one lonely rifle squad took out 2 of his LMG's - phew!. However, he had a rifle squad and fired into a suspected hidden unit location and got a hit. I pulled the only "foot killed" chit. SOB... My brave rifle squad eventually got killed off from his other two rifles squads that moved into the woods.

Right now we are in the middle of Turn 3 and he has rushed the objective and taken control of it, however I have it surrounded now with 4 rifle squads and my re-enforcement MMG bringing up the rear.

If you are the Russians and can get initiative on Turn1, I would recommend pulling the MMG behind the stone house out of LOS (as well as the other units), place your hidden units well and keep passing to make him come to you. If he can get past you w/o detection, then reveal and attack his flanks. It will slow him down and force him to make riskier moves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gene Baker
United States
Ocean Springs
Mississippi
flag msg tools
badge
Games with dragons, spaceships, and bears aren’t wargames. Call them conquest games or strategy games or crap but they aren’t wargames.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
facemn wrote:
It was one of those games were your opponent keeps rolling 11's and 12's and you roll 2's and 3's. Hard to win no matter how good your strategy is with rolls like that.


LOL I was the guy with the good rolls and even better I'd added CAP's no less than 3 times in the exact amount needed to pin/break whatever one his my opponents units. He still won.

I kind of felt justified since he didn't tell me about group move or firing. I guess the bright side is I never "wasted" any CAP's on the Russian mg. shake Then I learned that he had 4 mg's the hard way and lost an infantry unit. I then realized my Lock N Load tactics were killing me.

Nevertheless I was still in complete control of the city, except the stone building AND he only saw the road hex once.

We also totally screwed up how the VP's are done. He thought it was the same as firefight #1. That will change your tactics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
eryn roston
United States
San Diego
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Outta curiosity,

how does the "historical accuracy" crowd feel about the idea that the best russian move is to sit that MG directly behind the stone house rather than in it?

I would think a stone house is a rather good place to put an MG in usually.

-E
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gene Baker
United States
Ocean Springs
Mississippi
flag msg tools
badge
Games with dragons, spaceships, and bears aren’t wargames. Call them conquest games or strategy games or crap but they aren’t wargames.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
baditude wrote:
Outta curiosity,

how does the "historical accuracy" crowd feel about the idea that the best russian move is to sit that MG directly behind the stone house rather than in it?

I would think a stone house is a rather good place to put an MG in usually.

-E


I don’t know which is historically accurate but the defensive value of a stone bulding in Lock n Load is 1d6+4 of which the 4 is the stone bldg. From memory CoH is 12+2 where 2 is the stone building. As you can see the percentage of the stone bldg defensive value compared to the base is much greater in the LnL system than the CoH system.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Peters-Campbell
United States
Santa Cruz
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've played this one twice, both times as the Germans. The first time I played it I was a little over-enamored with the stacking and firegroup rules, and I also moved a lot too fast through the woods on the right flank. I got ambushed by hidden units and chewed up in melee.

The second time I moved the units a lot more individually. I set the LMGs up in the treeline and laid fire down at the stone house, while my infantry squads advanced from cover to cover toward the town. I still lost two squads to ambushes, but in return I completely wiped the Russians off the map. Given cover and a good arc of fire the German LMGs are just incredible as long as hidden enemies don't sneak up on them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
eric hess
United States
La Selva Beach (Santa Cruz)
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I just happened to be the fool that had his Russians wiped from the board by Ian as written above... and no I'm not bitter...

I definitely suffered from some others systems clouding my "tactics" in this game. I was under the impression that an MMG would have a higher firepower than an LMG and a stone building would provide a greater amount of cover than it did. Getting outright eliminated at close to full range of a single LMG despite cover in a stone building in the first turn certainly made me think twice about what I THOUGHT I knew about this system from one playing.

It's a game, and possibly more 'gamey' of a wargame than I am used to, but it is just a matter of time before I become more comfortable with the system and learn how to play it more proficiently.

Certainly 'skulking' is a valid, and encouraged tactic that I can see being useful, and even mandatory in defense strategies... particularly against das suparLMG's....

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Bothell
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I found this scenario much like the original poster, and the people who seem to think otherwise (that it is balanced/Soviets favored) keep talking about group movement. Let me just say that my inexperienced mind sees group movement as a seriously dumb idea in this scenario since it leaves you opened to ambushes on groups (as opposed to just single squad) and it burns caps when doing adjacent squads.

My opponent playing the Germans pretty much agreed with this and said screw moving this group stuff, I have a ton of guys and a ton of caps, and since he advanced out of groups, he completely dominated the game. I was able to ambush him a few times with hidden units, and I even took out a few, but with so many caps and units, it went downhill quickly.

We both agreed if he had stayed in groups it would have been more balanced since caps would have been spend on group activations and units would have been ambushed in pairs.

Do people really not think the Germans have a major advantage here if they don't move in groups?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Mitchell
United Kingdom
Brighton
East Sussex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I found the best tactic was to move the mg back and hide it. Hide, hide, hide, if the Germans are being over cautious they the player tends to panic and start rushing in. Its all to do with timing. When you attack it needs to be group CAP for maximum effect then secondary wave of attack with standard ap's to finish of any scouting group. Then if you have a chance hide again. Keep your mg hidden but covering objectives. You have to keep them germans on their toes, pressure them. You can if you like use decoys like i did to draw a group into an ambush or at least to burn their ap's trying to get you.

Obviously the best tactic is to only ambush from the flank but this can be tricky unless you are positioned further forward. Can work, but high risk as mg is weak and village is left undefended.

Sometimes its not what you do its what you don't do that can win it.

Though after harrassing my gf with guerilla style tactics I still got pwned so don't listen to me Seriously though it does work on other scenarios as well. I'm very much a hide and seek person, I am so glad this was included in the game, used to love it in Gunsligner as well
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Roberts
United States
Southlake
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I played this once a couple of weeks ago and twice last night (3 times in all), all against the same person. I played the Soviets each time. The first time I was massacred in terms of points. As the Soveits I easily won the second game. The third game was a lot closer, but the Soviets won again. I will try to post a session report on these.

Anyway, the keys to Soviet victory were hiding and timing. The kills typically came from hidden units ambushing from the flank or close combat (the LMGs are obviouslly good targets for close combat). At one point early in the third game, I had every unit of mine hidden. I was able to ambush at opportune times, such as ambushing used units when the Germans were low on or out of command points. I did an awful lot of passing, waiting for the German to use his actions and command points before I struck. Exceptions, of course, were when Germans entered adjacent or same hexes as my hidden guys.

Anyway, the scenario to me seems balanced, as long as the Soviet makes good use of hiding. If there is an imbanace in player experience level, the more experienced player should play the Soviets as Soviet play is tricky. I thought the scenario was fantastic and enjoyed every game, even when I got steamrolled.

Scott

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marcin Woźniak
Poland
Niemcz
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
And now, with the group movement for 1 CAP per hex, all german platoon can move 10 hexes and still have 8(or surviving, whichever smaller) units activated, ready to group fire, charges and other weird moves. That is a tough, as the forest trap is by-passed, stone house calls for help and only two units from behind. What is good here - no enormous shooting from 500 meters to make cheese of a stone building and good ol' Maxim - Rifles can group fire now only 5 hexes!!! makes them perfect ambush repellents
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Palmer
Canada
Ayr
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would recommend for those who think the firefight is now to easy on the Germans to use the handicapping rules and take a CAP or two from them (or add a CAP or two to the Soviet side.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.