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Subject: Honest questions for Obama supporters rss

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Dwayne Hendrickson
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I'm kinda tired of the name calling, the mud slinging and all of the belittling that has been going on. I'd like to open a thread for honest, no bickering discussion to get some information from folks who plan on voting for Barack Obama. I'd like for the discussion to be why you ARE voting for Obama, not why you're voting against McCain or Palin or Bush. If it turns that direction, I'll just shut the whole thing down.

Also, I'm not looking for snark points to be scored against Obama, I don't want folks on the other side to be taking cheap shots against him.

Here are a few questions that I would like to hear your input on:

1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?

2) Do you consider Barack Obama a political outsider? If so, why is that attractive?

3) What plan that Obama has presented do you see as the most effective at solving the problem it is addressing?

My In-laws (long time democrats) are voting for McCain and I know their reasons, but I have had trouble finding folks (at least here in Oklahoma) that can discuss Barack Obama without bringing up McCain or Bush. I'm wanting to hear about Barack Obama.

Edited: added question number 3
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okiedokie wrote:
I'd like for the discussion to be why you ARE voting for Obama, not why you're voting against McCain or Palin or Bush.


For me that's impossible as the largest reason I'm voting for Obama is because I'm voting against Bush (and I'm well aware that Bush isn't running and that McCain isn't a clone of Bush). I'd probably vote for Obama in a normal election anyway as I like him ok, he's better than Gore or Kerry that's for sure. I might not vote for him against he 2000 version of McCain, but that McCain is gone. If repulicans wanted my vote for McCain they should have nominated him then.

1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?

Nothing in particular.

2) Do you consider Barack Obama a political outsider? If so, why is that attractive?

Meh, it's irrelevant to me. I don't consider this question ever for anybody.

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At the risk of plagiarizing:

1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?

Nothing in particular.

2) Do you consider Barack Obama a political outsider? If so, why is that attractive?

Meh, it's irrelevant to me. I don't consider this question ever for anybody.

Honestly, my answers are exactly the same. And I think that's true for many Obama supporters. What we're looking for is restoring some measure of competence and evidence based rational decisionmaking to government. Yes (as I'm sure will be pointed out) none of those things are even remotely common in government, nor does Obama or any other Democrat have a monopoly on them. But the BCR has abandoned all semblance of rational governing and McCain has done far to little (esepcially since selecting an avatar of ignorance and unthinking as his running mate) to distance himself from it.
 
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Ken
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okiedokie wrote:
1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?


His work on securing nuclear weapons/materials impressed the hell out of me. Particularly since it's not a high profile issue - you don't "make a name for yourself" working on something like that, but it is important stuff.

He also worked to require disclosure of all groups that received federal funds, which is good because it provides greater transparency.

He's been active on immigration reform, election reform, veteran's affairs, and other issues.

For a junior senator not around for long, he's done a good amount in a body not known for speed of action.

Quote:
2) Do you consider Barack Obama a political outsider? If so, why is that attractive?


I don't and I don't think it is attractive. Part of governing is knowing how to work or change the system.

Quote:
3) What plan that Obama has presented do you see as the most effective at solving the problem it is addressing?


His tax policy and potentially his health care plan. Both have costs, but I think something needs to be done on both fronts or the middle class is in trouble (let alone anyone who's making less than that). I think restoring the tax policies Reagan had is fair. I think that if we don't get aggressive on health care, we're facing inflation up the wazoo on that front and think that eventually presents a public health crisis.

I also think his approach to foreign policy is a real step in the right direction - we can't be "going it alone" the way we have been.

There's more, but those are the big ones that spring immediately to mind.
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okiedokie wrote:

My In-laws (long time democrats) are voting for McCain and I know their reasons,


Which are? I've never heard any Dem switching to vote for Mc offer the slightest ideas about policy, so I'd really be interested since you brought them up.
 
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Dwayne Hendrickson
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Natus wrote:
okiedokie wrote:

My In-laws (long time democrats) are voting for McCain and I know their reasons,


Which are? I've never heard any Dem switching to vote for Mc offer the slightest ideas about policy, so I'd really be interested since you brought them up.


My In-laws live in Joliet & Braidwood, Illinois and have had face to face meetings with Barack Obama concerning large corporations mishandling toxic chemicals. These two corporations have impacted a large number of people and my In-laws directly.

They were very disgusted with how Obama handled (by not handling) the situations and they feel as if they have been abandoned by their own senator. The family has a long line of men who have served in the military and they decided to go with a fellow Vet than a man who they believed looked them straight in the eye and lied to them.

They like McCain's voting record and agree with him on various issues. They feel that the proposals that Obama offer will lead to a negative impact on this country, but they don't believe that Obama is telling the whole truth on almost anything he says. They have been following Obama through his years in Chicago politics and recognize what sort of politician emerges from that environment.

Their opinion has a lot of emotion (rightly so, given the impact to the family).

I've never had direct dealings with the man (but I used to live iin the Chicago area) and was wanting some positive opinions about him from supporters.
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Dwayne Hendrickson
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perfalbion wrote:

He also worked to require disclosure of all groups that received federal funds, which is good because it provides greater transparency.



This is the first time I had heard of him. He worked with Oklahoma Senator Tom Coburn on this. However, trying to navigate the website that was finally produced is quite a chore.
 
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1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?


In 2007, Obama cosponsored with Bond and Lieberman, an amendment to the Defense Authorization Act which helped our troops who suffer with PTSD, and other non-visible injuries of war. That's very significant to me, as I know several veterans who suffer from this, and haven't been served properly post-discharge.

2) Do you consider Barack Obama a political outsider? If so, why is that attractive?


For the most part, yes. He's been more vigilant versus special-interests and campaign funding than any Presidential candidate I have seen, and he has few ties to the business interests which have clouded the political landscape for the last 28 years.

Heck, his short history in politics means that his hands are also cleaner than most, and he is likely much less jaded than career politicians. That's refreshing, and has led to a more positive approach to his political ads and within his campaign, even in response to some of the most "truth-enhanced" and vicious attack ads of my lifetime.

Obamas world-view starts from a position of principle, as opposed to politics. This means that his positions remain consistent across spheres of policy.

For example, his views about the priority of human dignity spans the domestic and foreign policy divide. This means that his veiws about strengthening our country do not rely on military power or isolationism, but instead rely upon restoring our international respect and cooperation.

3) What plan that Obama has presented do you see as the most effective at solving the problem it is addressing?


He wants to reduce our debt to foreign countries and to reduce our reliance on foreign sources of energy. This makes sense, as we have more land and resources than most nations in the world--and we ought to harness the wind from our plains, the sun from our deserts, and the geothermal of places like Montana, Washington, and Hawaii. Iceland has a surplus of energy due to their utilization of their geothermal resources.

We ought to understand that our financial solvency affects the global economy, our debt causes us to be at risk, and our energy interests abroad compromise our values and actions in other regions of the globe.

Perception or reality, the reputation of the United States is at a historically low point, and this is destabilizing the world, and hindering our efforts to educate the world about democracy, capitalism (if that's even a good thing) and liberty.

But we've forgotten some of the depth of those ideals anyway. So I am a former Young Republican who loved Reagan, even if I see now the failure that de-regulation from his Presidency initiated, who now embraces the new beginning which Obama is best situated to provide.


 
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okiedokie wrote:

3) What plan that Obama has presented do you see as the most effective at solving the problem it is addressing?

Foreign policy. Obama is genuinely interested in dialogue. He is willing to work with countries that are not democracies like China. I think resolving the current issues reuire more than just the coalition of the "willing". It is the job of the leader to win over the "unwilling".
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Dwayne Hendrickson
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Thanks for the answers (except for Nick, I was wanting to stay away from stuff such as yours) I appreciate them quite a bit. I have a few more to toss in here:

4) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and William Ayers?

5) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and Tony Rezko?

6) Do you think that having Joe Biden as a VP pick brings a positive note of experience to the ticket, contradicts the idea of change by having a long term senator on the ticket, or... anything else you have to say about the VP pick.
 
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okiedokie wrote:
I'm kinda tired of the name calling, the mud slinging and all of the belittling that has been going on. I'd like to open a thread for honest, no bickering discussion to get some information from folks who plan on voting for Barack Obama. I'd like for the discussion to be why you ARE voting for Obama, not why you're voting against McCain or Palin or Bush. If it turns that direction, I'll just shut the whole thing down.

Also, I'm not looking for snark points to be scored against Obama, I don't want folks on the other side to be taking cheap shots against him.

[/size]


I am certainly not speaking for all voters here...but for me, a big part of deciding on who or what to vote for has a lot to do with comparisons. Although, I respect your attempt to try to eliminate any unnecessary name calling, I believe that by not allowing any kind of discussion of differences in outlook or policy you are severely limiting any kind of real dialog about why people vote. (You yourself had to include a problem with Obama in order to explain why your in laws are deciding to vote for McCain.)

As for me, I have not been especially enamored with any presidential candidate I have voted for since I was of voting age :cry: ... and I suspect that I am not alone in feeling like I have to vote for better than the other rather than the ideal.

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Dwayne Hendrickson
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I understand the need for comparisons but all too often, we find ourselves voting AGAINST something rather than FOR something. I'm wanting to hear why folks are voting for Barack Obama rather than why they are voting against the Republican party.
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okiedokie wrote:

1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?


First and foremost the Coburn–Obama Transparency Act. Followed up by the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act of 2007.

He spent his energies focused on nuclear proliferation issues, and tracking weapons after the USSR fell.

He's voted for whatever socialized medicine issues that had come down the pipeline, including veteran issues.

As McCain said, he has the most liberal voting record of any current senator. This speaks to me, as I don't normally feel that liberals are represented.

okiedokie wrote:
2) Do you consider Barack Obama a political outsider? If so, why is that attractive?


No. What would be attractive about an ineffective politician.

okiedokie wrote:
3) What plan that Obama has presented do you see as the most effective at solving the problem it is addressing?


His tax plan.
His health plan
His plan for withdrawing troops.
His change within the "War on Drugs"
His plan to reform Veterans medical coverage.
His creation of a Chief Technology Officer to upgrade government agencies to today's technologies.
His Citizen Promotion Act for immigrants.
His plan to keep the internet free and neutral.

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okiedokie wrote:
4) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and William Ayers?

5) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and Tony Rezko?


Been reading some propaganda sites?

His relationship to both is that they are both participate in the Democratic party in Illinois along with Obama, he has had some business dealings with Rezko (none of which were improper), and he doesn't rely on either for any form of advice, guidance, or interaction. These are associations that politicians have in their careers (McCain had Keating, and his ties were far deeper there).

Quote:
6) Do you think that having Joe Biden as a VP pick brings a positive note of experience to the ticket, contradicts the idea of change by having a long term senator on the ticket, or... anything else you have to say about the VP pick.


Biden's a fine pick. He's knowledgeable, intelligent, capable, and able to be President if something happens to Obama. He doesn't contradict anything Obama's message or approach, and strengthens the ticket through his experience and ability to connect with a different group of voters.
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okiedokie wrote:
Thanks for the answers (except for Nick, I was wanting to stay away from stuff such as yours) I appreciate them quite a bit. I have a few more to toss in here:

4) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and William Ayers?

5) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and Tony Rezko?

6) Do you think that having Joe Biden as a VP pick brings a positive note of experience to the ticket, contradicts the idea of change by having a long term senator on the ticket, or... anything else you have to say about the VP pick.


4) This is a ridiculous association. Barack was 8 years old, and living out of the country when Ayres was doing his thing.

I personally know a former member of the same radical group which Ayres was a part of, and she said that the association with Obama was ludicrous. She now works at a university in the same department which I do, and as an older african-american female, she has a lot of stories which she shares with me.

Does that make me a terrorist?

It's a bit like the Kevin Bacon separation... everyone is related to or has relationships with terrorists or criminals if we apply this sort of bull**** reasoning.

Sure, Obama was a board member of The Woods Fund board, while Ayres was the chairman. The question isn't whether that constitutes Obama's support of Ayres past, it ought to be whether the org ought to have the unapologetic Ayres as chairman.

Obama was a junior senator at that point, and was certainly trying to make a name for himself while living in the Hyde Park neighborhood of Chicago.

Their organization wasn't a criminal or terrorist organization, rather it was a charitable organization which sought to improve the socioeconomic conditions of the troubled south side of Chicago.

5) Another weak attempt at making a mountain out of a molehill by use of ancillary relationships.

In 2000 Ayers and Obama voted to invest $1 million in Woods Fund money into a firm run by a former boss of the then-state senator, Allison Davis.

In a separate business venture, Davis partnered with Tony Rezko.

But here's the eight things which the Chicago-Sun Times cite as important issues:

1. They met in 1990. Obama was a student at Harvard Law School and got an unsolicited job offer from Rezko, then a low-income housing developer in Chicago. Obama turned it down.

2. Obama took a job in 1993 with a small Chicago law firm, Davis Miner Barnhill, that represents developers -- primarily not-for-profit groups -- building low-income housing with government funds.

3. One of the firm's not-for-profit clients -- the Woodlawn Preservation and Investment Corp., co-founded by Obama's then-boss Allison Davis -- was partners with Rezko's company in a 1995 deal to convert an abandoned nursing home at 61st and Drexel into low-income apartments. Altogether, Obama spent 32 hours on the project, according to the firm. Only five hours of that came after Rezko and WPIC became partners, the firm says. The rest of the future senator's time was helping WPIC strike the deal with Rezko. Rezko's company, Rezmar Corp., also partnered with the firm's clients in four later deals -- none of which involved Obama, according to the firm. In each deal, Rezmar "made the decisions for the joint venture," says William Miceli, an attorney with the firm.

4. In 1995, Obama began campaigning for a seat in the Illinois Senate. Among his earliest supporters: Rezko. Two Rezko companies donated a total of $2,000. Obama was elected in 1996 -- representing a district that included 11 of Rezko's 30 low-income housing projects.

5. Rezko's low-income housing empire began crumbling in 2001, when his company stopped making mortgage payments on the old nursing home that had been converted into apartments. The state foreclosed on the building -- which was in Obama's Illinois Senate district.

6. In 2003, Obama announced he was running for the U.S. Senate, and Rezko -- a member of his campaign finance committee -- held a lavish fund-raiser June 27, 2003, at his Wilmette mansion.

7. A few months after Obama became a U.S. senator, he and Rezko's wife, Rita, bought adjacent pieces of property from a doctor in Chicago's Kenwood neighborhood -- a deal that has dogged Obama the last two years. The doctor sold the mansion to Obama for $1.65 million -- $300,000 below the asking price. Rezko's wife paid full price -- $625,000 -- for the adjacent vacant lot. The deals closed in June 2005. Six months later, Obama paid Rezko's wife $104,500 for a strip of her land, so he could have a bigger yard. At the time, it had been widely reported that Tony Rezko was under federal investigation. Questioned later about the timing of the Rezko deal, Obama called it "boneheaded" because people might think the Rezkos had done him a favor.

8. Eight months later -- in October 2006 -- Rezko was indicted on charges he solicited kickbacks from companies seeking state pension business under his friend Gov. Blagojevich. Federal prosecutors maintain that $10,000 from the alleged kickback scheme was donated to Obama's run for the U.S. Senate. Obama has given the money to charity.


So, his college buddy made some bad choices and Obama was not part of those choices.

But, since the guy effed up, and since Obama received an 18% discount from the seller, NOT REZKO on a piece of property which Obama bought from a private individual next to the Rezko's, and later bought a strip from that parcel (at market value) which the Rezko's owned, that makes him dishonest and complicit?

That's akin to me being at fault for my neighbor's meth lab in his basement because I occasionally picked up the guy's mail when he went out of town.

Yeah, the guy had a friend who turned out the be a crook. I have too. Does that make me a criminal? Nope, I cut off the frienship when I found out--and I am sure that he did the same.

6) The VP pick was a relatively safe one, and it does say that Obama was willing to bury past differences.

It has been widely noted that Biden disagreed with Obama resoundingly about several issues in the past. But that appears to be a complementary relationship now, and their diversity of experience may be an asset.

But as much as I detest Hillary Clinton, I would have loved to see her in the debate with Palin last night when she got nasty. He was in a no-win situation as a man, and as a speaker with a history of gaffes and long-windedness.

He did well enough to show his competence, and as a front-runner that was enough. But, I would've love to have seen Hillary tear Palin a new one. She got away with a lot, said nothing, and her "wink and a smile" was completely disrespectful of the forum, but I digress...
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Dwayne Hendrickson
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Quote:
Been reading some propaganda sites?


I read a lot & hear a lot and I was wondering if these associations were having any impact. I deliberately stayed away from Rev. Wright because I think that has been blown out of proportion.
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Rezko and Ayre have also been blown out of proportion, usually by folks with a loose consideration for truth and more interest in throwing mud. It'd be like trying to link McCain to Rep. Cunningham.
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For the first three questions, what Marshall said.


4) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and William Ayers?

I don't see anything in it aside from perhaps a willful ignorance of how such an association might appear. It doesn't affect my opinion of candidate Obama.

5) How do you view the relationship between Barack Obama and Tony Rezko?

I think that there is something here that can be attributed to bad judgement or a willingness to take advantage of his position. It falls into a gray area with me, since I'm cynical about all politicians and assume that they're all doing similar things. (i.e. if a politician who I despised was associated with the same thing, I'd probably shrug and lose interest)

6) Do you think that having Joe Biden as a VP pick brings a positive note of experience to the ticket, contradicts the idea of change by having a long term senator on the ticket, or... anything else you have to say about the VP pick.

I like the Biden pick. It was a fortunate pick, given the Palin selection, since Biden can believably evoke a working class persona as well. Add to that his independent outlook, extensive experience in foreign policy and the economy, and vast network of contacts throughout Washington, and you have an ideal confidant for the president. Change doesn't mean you have to be from a mountaintop, it just means that you think that we've been following flawed policies and need to adjust.
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okiedokie wrote:
Natus wrote:
okiedokie wrote:

My In-laws (long time democrats) are voting for McCain and I know their reasons,


Which are? I've never heard any Dem switching to vote for Mc offer the slightest ideas about policy, so I'd really be interested since you brought them up.


My In-laws live in Joliet & Braidwood, Illinois and have had face to face meetings with Barack Obama concerning large corporations mishandling toxic chemicals. These two corporations have impacted a large number of people and my In-laws directly.

They were very disgusted with how Obama handled (by not handling) the situations and they feel as if they have been abandoned by their own senator. The family has a long line of men who have served in the military and they decided to go with a fellow Vet than a man who they believed looked them straight in the eye and lied to them.

They like McCain's voting record and agree with him on various issues. They feel that the proposals that Obama offer will lead to a negative impact on this country, but they don't believe that Obama is telling the whole truth on almost anything he says. They have been following Obama through his years in Chicago politics and recognize what sort of politician emerges from that environment.

Their opinion has a lot of emotion (rightly so, given the impact to the family).

I've never had direct dealings with the man (but I used to live iin the Chicago area) and was wanting some positive opinions about him from supporters.


Could I ask you to be a bit more specific about what exactly this issue was and how it went down? I'm sorry to press you on this, but I'm getting the uneasy feeling that your in-laws, Dems though they may have called themselves at one time, seem to be perfectly formed McCain supporters. I'm just hearing story after story of some "Dem" voting for Mc, and when they tell you why, there's no there there. Since your in-laws actually have a story, I'd love to hear it.
 
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okiedokie wrote:
I'd like for the discussion to be why you ARE voting for Obama, not why you're voting against McCain or Palin or Bush. If it turns that direction, I'll just shut the whole thing down.

Out of curiosity, if it came to that, how would you "shut the whole thing down"? BGG no longer let's the base poster have dictator control over threads when they don't like what's being said, ie. the thread's creator can now only delete their own post(s), it doesn't delete all the other posts along with it.
 
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He could ask the admins to lock the thread.
 
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Natus wrote:
okiedokie wrote:
Natus wrote:
okiedokie wrote:

My In-laws (long time democrats) are voting for McCain and I know their reasons,


Which are? I've never heard any Dem switching to vote for Mc offer the slightest ideas about policy, so I'd really be interested since you brought them up.


My In-laws live in Joliet & Braidwood, Illinois and have had face to face meetings with Barack Obama concerning large corporations mishandling toxic chemicals. These two corporations have impacted a large number of people and my In-laws directly.

They were very disgusted with how Obama handled (by not handling) the situations and they feel as if they have been abandoned by their own senator. The family has a long line of men who have served in the military and they decided to go with a fellow Vet than a man who they believed looked them straight in the eye and lied to them.

They like McCain's voting record and agree with him on various issues. They feel that the proposals that Obama offer will lead to a negative impact on this country, but they don't believe that Obama is telling the whole truth on almost anything he says. They have been following Obama through his years in Chicago politics and recognize what sort of politician emerges from that environment.

Their opinion has a lot of emotion (rightly so, given the impact to the family).

I've never had direct dealings with the man (but I used to live iin the Chicago area) and was wanting some positive opinions about him from supporters.


Could I ask you to be a bit more specific about what exactly this issue was and how it went down? I'm sorry to press you on this, but I'm getting the uneasy feeling that your in-laws, Dems though they may have called themselves at one time, seem to be perfectly formed McCain supporters. I'm just hearing story after story of some "Dem" voting for Mc, and when they tell you why, there's no there there. Since your in-laws actually have a story, I'd love to hear it.


He's talking about this.
 
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slowcorner wrote:
He could ask the admins to lock the thread.

I doubt the admins will lock the thread if he folks don't answer his question exactly the way he wants folks to answer his question. Sarah Palin doesn't so why should we?
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Snoo Py
United States
Sunnyvale
California
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1) What has Barack Obama done legislatively that impresses you the most?

He voted against the war in Iraq
-> Vision and political courage.
 
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Ken
United States
Crystal Lake
Illinois
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slowcorner wrote:
He's talking about this.


If that's true, I don't see how Obama's fallen down on the job. The Illinois EPA acted, the Illinois AG acted, and the company's got some specific remedies that they've had to undertake.

http://www.epa.state.il.us/community-relations/fact-sheets/e...

I don't know what promises Sen. Obama made, but it looks like agencies have stepped in and done their jobs. I also don't know what else he was expected to do, other than pressure regulators to follow through and do their jobs.
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