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Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Firefight: "The Bunker" rss

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Colin Houghton
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How on earth do you defeat the bunker and claim those beautiful 6vps for the Germans in "The Bunker" firefight?cry

I've tried twice now, and each time, only seem to be able to get units by or on the Bunker by turn 4, and then with not enough force to be able to destroy the Bunker or kill those inside it. If it's got an anti-tank gun in it, then it's a killer (unless it's used and the Soviet has no CAPs or cards left).
 
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Stan Noordman
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Chou4555 wrote:
How on earth do you defeat the bunker and claim those beautiful 6vps for the Germans in "The Bunker" firefight?:cry:

I've tried twice now, and each time, only seem to be able to get units by or on the Bunker by turn 4, and then with not enough force to be able to destroy the Bunker or kill those inside it. If it's got an anti-tank gun in it, then it's a killer (unless it's used and the Soviet has no CAPs or cards left).


You can also go for the 2 VPs all the way out back instead, getting all 3 of those is 6 VP aswell. Or perhaps a little of both, he has to focus on the other one and you try to sneak up on the bunker. Use smoke to your advantage.
 
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Colin Houghton
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Stan.

Thanks.

I didn't think there were any smoke-capable vehicles in that scenario, or mortars, or off-board artillery!

So unless my LMG squads are particularly heavy Lucky Strike/Gauloise puffers, I don't think the Germans can generate any smoke!
 
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Shane Meehan
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I couldn't take the bunker either.

Given that the average unit front defensive rating is 12 and the bunker is +5 that is 17 defense that you will need to overcome. If the average rifle squad is 4 firepower and a perfect roll is 12 = 16. Then you will need ALOT of combined fire to have a chance to hit a unit in a bunker.

With 3 squads 4+2+12= 18 perfect roll, must roll a 11 or better to hit

With 6 squads 4+5+12= 21 perfect roll, must roll a 8 or better to hit

If you are attacking the bunker with less then 6 units you might be wasting your time.
 
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James Palmer
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Don't forget about close combat.

At close combat range, with 3 squads as in your example, it's 4 + 2 + 12 + 4 = 22 perfect roll, only a 7 or higher is needed for a hit.
 
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uwe eickert
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Attacking the bunker from the rear or flank gives the AT gun a red 10 defense. Add in the bunker for a total defense of 15. A unit firing from an adjacent hex (such as a PzII or LMG fires with a 7), so only an 8 is needed to hit. Add in 2CAPs and you need a 6. All this time, whatever is in the bunker cannot fire back, since they are facing the wrong direction. See if this helps.

Bunkers were tough to crack, that is why flame throwers were so effective.

Uwe
 
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James Palmer
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uweeickert wrote:
Attacking the bunker from the rear or flank


Wait a second... I thought LOS was reciprocal... according to the manual:

"All LOS rules apply in both directions, so if unit A cannot see unit C, C cannot see A"

and

"Units outside of a bunker’s arc of fire are out of LOS and not
seen by units inside of the bunker."

This means that not only can units in the bunker not fire outside the bunker's arc of fire, but that outside units should not be able to fire at units inside a bunker unless they too are in the arc of fire.

Is this not the case, Uwe?
 
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Scott Chelette
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Chou4555 wrote:
Stan.

Thanks.

I didn't think there were any smoke-capable vehicles in that scenario, or mortars, or off-board artillery!

So unless my LMG squads are particularly heavy Lucky Strike/Gauloise puffers, I don't think the Germans can generate any smoke!
Panzer IVD can drop smoke.

Other observations:
It is tempting to put the AT Gun in the Bunker, but PzIVD smoke from long range negates its ability to keep the tanks from coming around behind the bunker. I set up the AT Gun on top of the hill in front of the bunker, with a hidden rifle squad in the same hex for protection. My opponent flushed out the position with a scout truck. Next time I will try the hidden AT Gun in light woods on a flank.

Germans should consider having an infantry unit ride on one of the tanks.
 
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uwe eickert
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James,
The line of sight rule that you quote is meant for hills and blocking terrain. As for the bunker, in this case, the units inside cannot fire at units firing at their flank. This is meant to simulate the units knowing that they have been outflanked and must get out soon.

It is very difficult to hit units in a bunker with anything other than powerful tanks, artillery or short range/CC attacks. As the threads show, many players cannot seem to crack the bunker in firefight 4.

So in summary, unit in bunkers may not be able to fire back at units firing at them. Do we have to make this clearer in the rules?

Uwe
 
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James Palmer
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Uwe - definitely needs clarification in the rules, as right now I'd say the rules are clearly saying something else.

I would say as a must you need to take the phrase "line of sight" out of it, so that "line of sight" can stay consistent. That phrase alone is what makes it confusing. If we understand that the bunker does not change a unit's LOS but enforces a "facing" for when they fire, then that keeps all the rules consistent.
 
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Barry Ingram
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Dr.Cornelius wrote:
Chou4555 wrote:
Stan.

Thanks.

I didn't think there were any smoke-capable vehicles in that scenario, or mortars, or off-board artillery!

So unless my LMG squads are particularly heavy Lucky Strike/Gauloise puffers, I don't think the Germans can generate any smoke!
Panzer IVD can drop smoke.


Scott.

I don't think the MkIV's have smoke making capabilities in this firefight.
Only Mortars that are 8cm or larger, off-board artillery and pioneers have this ability unless otherwise disallowed by the firefight. Other units must be specifically called out in the firefight's special rules and I can't see this mentioned anywhere for the Bunker firefight.


Another open question to this board...

The Russian set-up states up to 4 units may be set-up hidden. Can the player set-up the Hasty Defense as 'hidden'?
If so, would it count as one of the 4 units or can it be so hidden in addition to the 4 units?

I suspect neither is possible since the HD is a fortification rather than a unit but the rules do allow for these to be hidden so would like to be 100% certain.

Having the ability to hide this on set-up along with 1 of the 4 units would allow some interesting open ground spots that would otherwise be susceptible to the 'within 2 hex and los' detection rule.
 
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James Palmer
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I would allow the hidden defenses and not count them as part of the hidden unit count.
 
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Barry Ingram
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Thnaks for the reply James.

It's how I would have interpreted the 'intent' although it's not specified in the firefight's set-up.
 
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Chuck Parrott
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While I can see a logical argument for being able to hide fixed fortifications such as trenches, hasty defense, etc. I don't think it should alter the spotting rules for open ground. If you place them in the open, I would think you'd still be able to spot them from a greater distance than if they were in non-open terrain. Maybe not the unit being protected revealed, but the fortification itself should be visible from a range of 2 and LOS.
 
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Barry Ingram
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Probably right Chuck.
maybe I'm reading too much into the +1 'cover' aspect the HD provides, albeit is clearly (now you mention it) not covering terrain in its own right.

btw - you will need to add the invisibility trait to the HD provided in the (vassal) Bunker firefight set-up pieces.
 
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James Palmer
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Chuck is correct - fortifications do not alter spotting in any way.
 
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