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Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery» Forums » Rules

Subject: Merchant Shipping Tie (Sort Of) rss

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So what happens if no one places a unit in the Merchant Shipping box? Does the ship go to no one or does it go to the player in the first turn order box?
 
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Daniel Lawless
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I could see this going either way. I regret I dont have a copy of the rules, but since no one placed there, I dont think anyone would get it, though you are technically tied at zero with initiative breaking the tie. I wouldn't give it to anyone. Shame on whoever placed last.
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Mitch Willis
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Wow, never thought of that before. We've had it happen just once and never even considered giving it to the player first in the turn order. We didn't give it to any one but, upon reading your post, I'm not sure if that's correct or not...

The rules and the FAQ don't seem to address that specific issue...I'm no rules lawyer, but it could very well be interpreted that, in this case, every one would tie and thus it would go to the first person in the turn order...
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David Abel
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I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.

Turn order only breaks ties, it doesn't doesn’t give you the additional action of awarding the ship. If you want the ship, place a guy, otherwise, it goes unawarded.
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drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.

Turn order only breaks ties, it doesn't doesn’t give you the additional action of awarding the ship. If you want the ship, place a guy, otherwise, it goes unawarded.

Citation needed.
 
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Alan Goodrich
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joebelanger wrote:
drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.

Turn order only breaks ties, it doesn't doesn’t give you the additional action of awarding the ship. If you want the ship, place a guy, otherwise, it goes unawarded.

Citation needed.


Hard to cite something that doesn't exist in the rules. This game seems fairly straightforward in the worker-placement mechanic, so I too never thought of your issue. Basically, if there is no worker on the space, you don't get the benefit, regardless of the space. I mean, does the first player get everything that has no worker sitting on it? I'm not sure why this is even an issue...
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David Abel
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Alright, you got me. In rereading the rules, I see what you're saying. The rules cite “same value”, and 0 by all players could be considered same value.

This is of course a very hypothetical situation. I've never seen the box go empty, and as the last (placing) player could pick up the ship on the cheap by playing his last guy there, it should never go empty.

So I'll step aside and let you work this hypothetical out for yourself.
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cayluster wrote:
joebelanger wrote:
drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.

Turn order only breaks ties, it doesn't doesn’t give you the additional action of awarding the ship. If you want the ship, place a guy, otherwise, it goes unawarded.

Citation needed.


Hard to cite something that doesn't exist in the rules. This game seems fairly straightforward in the worker-placement mechanic, so I too never thought of your issue. Basically, if there is no worker on the space, you don't get the benefit, regardless of the space. I mean, does the first player get everything that has no worker sitting on it? I'm not sure why this is even an issue...

So (by the rules), the ship should remain there, be refreshed with another ship at the end of the turn and two ships should be up for grabs next turn? I'm not sure why this isn't even an issue...
 
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David Abel
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1 Ship
4 Goods
5 Buildings

Each turn reguardless of what was left behind last turn
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Galen
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Until Glen posts here I would assume that no one gets the ship.
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Tim Seitz
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joebelanger wrote:
cayluster wrote:
joebelanger wrote:
drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.

Turn order only breaks ties, it doesn't doesn’t give you the additional action of awarding the ship. If you want the ship, place a guy, otherwise, it goes unawarded.

Citation needed.


Hard to cite something that doesn't exist in the rules. This game seems fairly straightforward in the worker-placement mechanic, so I too never thought of your issue. Basically, if there is no worker on the space, you don't get the benefit, regardless of the space. I mean, does the first player get everything that has no worker sitting on it? I'm not sure why this is even an issue...

So (by the rules), the ship should remain there, be refreshed with another ship at the end of the turn and two ships should be up for grabs next turn? I'm not sure why this isn't even an issue...


You get bonus points for tenacious rules lawyering
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Glenn Drover
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While the technical reading of the rules would be to give it to the player in first turn order, it seems much more logical to not award it to anyone. (consistent with other items that are awarded only if someone shows up).

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Budley wrote:
While the technical reading of the rules would be to give it to the player in first turn order, it seems much more logical to not award it to anyone. (consistent with other items that are awarded only if someone shows up).



Common sense prevails. Well done Glenn
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drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.


We had this happen in a game with 5 players, all of whom had played before. Sometimes there's just other stuff to use your guys for. We played it the common sense way - no one gets it.
 
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Matt Smith
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RITBeast wrote:
drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.


We had this happen in a game with 5 players, all of whom had played before. Sometimes there's just other stuff to use your guys for. We played it the common sense way - no one gets it.

Never let common sense get in the way of rules lawyering.

Seriously though, I understand the OP's point. However, I think using Glenn's approach is sound (I know he designed the game, but his approach can be used for almost any game). Looking at the other spots, when they are not selected, the resource (trade good, building) is not awarded, nor is the available quantity doubled the next turn.

Having it spelled out in the rules is best, of course, but in this case I think the rest of the game design provides an implicit answer.
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Alan Goodrich
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joebelanger wrote:
cayluster wrote:
joebelanger wrote:
drabel wrote:
I guess it's possible that this may happen in a two-player game where both players are focused on something else that turn, but would never happen in a full game.

Turn order only breaks ties, it doesn't doesn’t give you the additional action of awarding the ship. If you want the ship, place a guy, otherwise, it goes unawarded.

Citation needed.


Hard to cite something that doesn't exist in the rules. This game seems fairly straightforward in the worker-placement mechanic, so I too never thought of your issue. Basically, if there is no worker on the space, you don't get the benefit, regardless of the space. I mean, does the first player get everything that has no worker sitting on it? I'm not sure why this is even an issue...

So (by the rules), the ship should remain there, be refreshed with another ship at the end of the turn and two ships should be up for grabs next turn? I'm not sure why this isn't even an issue...


Just as with trade goods, if it isn't claimed, it remains on the board, and is not refreshed with a new item.

The reason I think it isn't an issue is because it is all about getting something for nothing, or somehow having the game reward you for not taking the action (i.e. next turn someone gets 2 for the price of 1). When it seems to contradict the spirit of the game, why do it? I don't think you should ever really be rewarded for poor play.
 
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cayluster wrote:
Just as with trade goods, if it isn't claimed, it remains on the board, and is not refreshed with a new item.


Don't mean to be nit-picky but, according to the rules, unclaimed trade goods are not left on the board but mixed back into the reserve pile with the rest of the goods. Then 4 random ones are chosen for the next round...but I think the point you were making is that there are never going to be more than 4 trade goods available each round no matter how many are unclaimed...
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cayluster wrote:


Just as with trade goods,

You mean Capital Buildings.
 
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We made the "common sense" ruling mid-game yesterday.

Thanks for chiming in though after the official ruling. Ballsy.
 
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drabel wrote:
1 Ship
4 Goods
5 Buildings

Each turn reguardless of what was left behind last turn

I thought you removed goods that weren't taken last turn, returned them to the supply and drew four new ones each turn.
 
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Holy crap, how did I miss Mitch's post?! Very informative and completely lacking snootery. Good on'ya.

 
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Alan Goodrich
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joebelanger wrote:
cayluster wrote:


Just as with trade goods,

You mean Capital Buildings.


Right... my point was, there are never multiples of anything stacking up on the board, waiting to be snagged.
 
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Alan Goodrich
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joebelanger wrote:
We made the "common sense" ruling mid-game yesterday.

Thanks for chiming in though after the official ruling. Ballsy.


Sorry if I came off as snooty - I wasn't "chiming in" after the official ruling, I was responding to your previous post, as to why (in my view) the question wasn't really worth needing the designer's call on.
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Yeah, I know. I was talking about the Johnny-Come-Lately-"Yeah, That's What I Would Have Said"ers.
 
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