Chad Ellis
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The more we learn about Palin, the more it seems that her core story is flat-out invented like one of the bedtime stories I tell my daughters at night.

She's understands small businesses because she herself owned two...except that the businesses she owned consisted of a car wash that never actually washed cars and a marketing company that didn't actually do any marketing. http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2008/10/...

She's an anti-earmark maverick who said, "Thanks but no thanks" and you know the drill.

She campaigned for Governor on a platform of transparency but has run a secretive administration, including handling government business via personal email in order to protect it from legal discovery.

She said she wanted the investigation (Troopergate) to move forward as quickly as possible at the same time her lawyer was stalling it and announcing that she might not be available for interviewing for a full month or more.

She's an expert on energy (according to McCain one of the top experts in the country) and yet she misstates basic facts on energy production.

She claims that her Couric answers were bad because she was "annoyed" at the questions and that there was no way she could avoid getting clobbered, whether she answered it or "pivoted" to something "Americans want to hear about". (I'd love to have any of her supporters explain how that applies to the questions about Hamas, Alaska or even what she reads.)

Is anything about her authentic?
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Phil
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Chad_Ellis wrote:

Is anything about her authentic?

She believes the universe is a few thousand years old?
 
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Mr. B @ Rockin' B
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Uh, and your point?
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Morgan Dontanville
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cln777 wrote:
Uh, and your point?



Chad_Ellis wrote:
I'd love to have any of her supporters explain how that applies to the questions about Hamas, Alaska or even what she reads.

Is anything about her authentic?
 
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Chad Ellis
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cln777 wrote:
Uh, and your point?


Sorry, I should have been more clear. She's running primarily on her claim to authenticity and yet she's not authentic in the slightest.
 
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Pat Roberts
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Well Chad, I think the numbers we are seeing show that what your saying is pretty much accepted at this point. Republicans as a group are not dumb. They see it. They are circling the wagons in public (like this forum) but the polls are telling the tail. Or rather, I should say Tail-spin, since they are now dropping like a rock.
McCain is desperate. Whatever Palin was capable of delivering is completely gone, as she gets sent to deliver completly contrived personal attacks that nobody believes. (Well no rational people) The net will be that she is devalued as an asset. Good. She needs to be purged as a potential candidate EVER again.
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Ken
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lizardbaby wrote:
Well Chad, I think the numbers we are seeing show that what your saying is pretty much accepted at this point. Republicans as a group are not dumb. They see it. They are circling the wagons in public (like this forum) but the polls are telling the tail. Or rather, I should say Tail-spin, since they are now dropping like a rock.


The polls aren't reflecting a shift in the Republican base - that's solidly behind her. The polls are reflecting a shift in independents.

Quote:
Whatever Palin was capable of delivering is completely gone, as she gets sent to deliver completly contrived personal attacks that nobody believes.


I will disagree with you 100%. Palin was selected to deliver the base (who wasn't particularly excited about McCain), and she is fulfilling that task marvelously. It is possible that she may be turning off independents in the process, but that is hardly demonstrated. The "noise" from the economy is drowning that out.

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(Well no rational people) The net will be that she is devalued as an asset. Good. She needs to be purged as a potential candidate EVER again.


She's really not devalued in Republican circles. Indeed, there's already talk of her being at the top of the ticket in '12 or '16.

The fundamental misunderstanding that many Democrats have about Gov. Palin is that she is not and was not chosen to do anything more than solidifying the base and being the attack dog that VP candidates are expected to be. From a purely Republican perspective, she's filling those roles and getting the job done. There are those that would like her to bow out, but they aren't in the majority of the Republican party.

Expect to see Ms. Palin again on a national stage - I'd say there's a better than even chance that we will.
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I love the Palin of the story. If it was mostly true, McCain made a great move.
Unfortunately, the facts and the story seem to have some discrepancies.

She looked dumb as rocks in some of the early interviews, but redeemed herself to a certain extent in the debate. I'd like to see her given a little more freedom to see which is "real."

Even the "story" wouldn't have inspired me enough to vote Republican this time around, but it was a great story.

 
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perfalbion wrote:
The polls aren't reflecting a shift in the Republican base - that's solidly behind her. The polls are reflecting a shift in independents.

I will disagree with you 100%. Palin was selected to deliver the base (who wasn't particularly excited about McCain), and she is fulfilling that task marvelously. It is possible that she may be turning off independents in the process, but that is hardly demonstrated. The "noise" from the economy is drowning that out.

She's really not devalued in Republican circles. Indeed, there's already talk of her being at the top of the ticket in '12 or '16.

The fundamental misunderstanding that many Democrats have about Gov. Palin is that she is not and was not chosen to do anything more than solidifying the base and being the attack dog that VP candidates are expected to be. From a purely Republican perspective, she's filling those roles and getting the job done. There are those that would like her to bow out, but they aren't in the majority of the Republican party.

Expect to see Ms. Palin again on a national stage - I'd say there's a better than even chance that we will.


No, I get it. I just disagree about what the "base" is. See I think "I" am part of the Republican base. I voted for Regan. I did not vote for Bush I because he was... well a bad choice. Clinton was IMO more conservative than him. The numbers IMO bear me out. I did not vote for W because he was again, a horrible choice. Not a real conservative.
The right needs to figure out what it's real "base" is. If your going to have the social "conservatives" be your base going forward, your screwed for the next 12 - 16 years. If your base swings back to economic and legaslative conservatives... well then man, it becomes a horse race.

Palin would not lead any ticket not dominated by social conservatives. Or rather NeoCons.
 
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Ken
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lizardbaby wrote:
Palin would not lead any ticket not dominated by social conservatives. Or rather NeoCons.


I think you just described most of what the Republican leadership considers "the base" to be with this sentence.
 
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Chad Ellis
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perfalbion wrote:
lizardbaby wrote:
Well Chad, I think the numbers we are seeing show that what your saying is pretty much accepted at this point. Republicans as a group are not dumb. They see it. They are circling the wagons in public (like this forum) but the polls are telling the tail. Or rather, I should say Tail-spin, since they are now dropping like a rock.


The polls aren't reflecting a shift in the Republican base - that's solidly behind her. The polls are reflecting a shift in independents.


I think a sub-set of the base -- so-called social conservatives -- are still behind her, but that's just part of the Republican base. Fiscal conservatives and others, not so much.

Quote:
Quote:
Whatever Palin was capable of delivering is completely gone, as she gets sent to deliver completly contrived personal attacks that nobody believes.


I will disagree with you 100%. Palin was selected to deliver the base (who wasn't particularly excited about McCain), and she is fulfilling that task marvelously. It is possible that she may be turning off independents in the process, but that is hardly demonstrated. The "noise" from the economy is drowning that out.


I think you're right that she was picked to motivate the base (although I would still quibble that it's just a subset that she motivates) but I strongly disagree that it isn't demonstrated that she's turning off independents. Polls on her approval rating and on whether her pick made people more or less likely to vote for McCain were showing a clear downward trend before the economy blew up, and I can only assume that a financial meltdown makes moderates less excited rather than more about a lightweight-on-content candidate.

Quote:
Quote:
(Well no rational people) The net will be that she is devalued as an asset. Good. She needs to be purged as a potential candidate EVER again.


She's really not devalued in Republican circles. Indeed, there's already talk of her being at the top of the ticket in '12 or '16.


Sure, by the same people who think that Huckabee would be winning right now if he won the nomination. The fact that people like George Will have called her demonstrably unfit for the office and that Kathleen Parker went so far as to call on her to withdraw shows that she is at least devalued. That's not to say she can't make a recovery (four years is a long time to prepare) but I think she stands a very good chance of being like Quayle; a candidate that the majority of Americans wouldn't vote for but who is kept somewhat alive by a small group of ardent admirers who don't recognize that "small" is a word that describes them.

Quote:
The fundamental misunderstanding that many Democrats have about Gov. Palin is that she is not and was not chosen to do anything more than solidifying the base and being the attack dog that VP candidates are expected to be. From a purely Republican perspective, she's filling those roles and getting the job done. There are those that would like her to bow out, but they aren't in the majority of the Republican party.


I actually think that most Democrats get this. The problem (for McCain now and Palin later) is that that isn't the only role of a VP. It's often described that way because it's taken as a given that the VP is widely seen as competent to step in for the President. Palin isn't.

Quote:
Expect to see Ms. Palin again on a national stage - I'd say there's a better than even chance that we will.


I don't doubt that we'll see her. I expect her at least to explore a run for the Presidency in four years. I just don't expect her to win the nomination, or even to come particularly close.
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