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Subject: October Surprise #2? Did Ayers write Obama's first memoir? rss

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Jeff
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So Obama wrote his memoir in a different style than a legal review and a poem? Scandalous.

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Really, who cares? Using ghostwriters is fairly commonplace when celebrities get a book contract.

Is the content still accurate? That's really all that's relevant in this discussion.
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Drew1365 wrote:

Again, dyed-in-the-wool Obama supporters will say this means nothing. For the rest of us . . . well, who is this Obama guy really? It's getting even harder to tell.

I wonder if you know how lame that sounds to anyone who's not a dyed-in-the-wool Obama hater.
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Chad Ellis
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LOL. I read a bit of the article and was struck by how similar it reads to the conspiracy theory pieces I've read over the years about 9/11, the "censoring" of Intelligent Design, the supposed murders by the Clintons, etc. Then I browsed the rest of the articles...color me shocked.
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Drew1365 wrote:


Again, dyed-in-the-wool Obama supporters will say this means nothing. For the rest of us . . .


For the "rest" of you, well it's something you will need to come to terms with for the next 4-8 years. Enjoy the ride. devil
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Drew1365 wrote:
Again, dyed-in-the-wool Obama supporters will say this means nothing. For the rest of us . . . well, who is this Obama guy really? It's getting even harder to tell.

Are you saying It's so compelling that the only way to not accept it is to be a zealot for Obama?

If there's any credibility to the comparative portion of the article, it does give one pause. I'd at least offer a third hypothesis if the article's facts bore out; Obama plagiarized Ayer's memoir. This idea would adequately account for Ayer's supposed mentioning of his neighbor, "writer Barack Obama," as a snipe. That the author doesn't consider this, when he's so clearly inclined against Obama makes me suspect his motives in writing; it doesn't lead to the salacious conclusion of being in cahoots with a terrorist.

The article employs a sneering tone throughout which undermines its credibility. When it close with this (emphasis mine), I'm inclined to discount the entire article as a fear-mongering smear and scare tactic:
Quote:
The Obama camp could put all such speculation to rest by producing some intermediary sign of impending greatness -- a school paper, an article, a notebook, his Columbia thesis, his LSAT scores -- but Obama guards these more zealously than Saddam did his nuclear secrets. And I suspect, at the end of the day, we will pay an equally high price for Obama's concealment as Saddam's.
 
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A fourth option: Ayers ***IS*** Obama. Have we seen any pictures of the two of them in the same place? Hmm?
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Who cares about Obama. Bill Ayers is an American hero. I wish it were he that was running.
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vandemonium wrote:
A fourth option: Ayers ***IS*** Obama. Have we seen any pictures of the two of them in the same place? Hmm?


So is it Ayers that is Clark Kent or Obama?

My guess, Ayers...Then, when the Right makes him angry, he turns into...

THE INCREDIBLE OBAMA!

OBAMA SMASH!

laughlaugh
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Ah...shame...so underrated nowadays...
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Wait, What?

So, the argument is basically his first book shouldn't be good because that doesn't happen?

Charles Dickens wrote the Pickwick Papers at Age 25.

(BTW, I'm more interested in the specious argument as an English teacher and less interested in the politics. The same kind of arguments have been used to argue that Shakespeare did not really exist and must have been a pen-name for a more educated and wealthy aristocrat).
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Also, since I don't get to say this very often:

Quote:
They tabulate nearly identically on the Flesch Reading Ease Score (FRES), something of a standard in the field.


Wow what total bullshit (sorry, but I've got degrees "in the field").
 
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JohnRayJr wrote:
Wow what total bullshit.


Welcome to politics!
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Drew1365 wrote:
JohnRayJr wrote:
Wait, What?

So, the argument is basically his first book shouldn't be good because that doesn't happen?


Not at all. It's a lengthy article, by internet standards, and I only excerpted a portion.


Its an interesting article, but hardly conclusive. Papers that try and determine the 'authorship' of ghostwritten material always have a large hurdle to leap over.

That said-
IF this article is true, and Ayers really did ghostwrite "Dreams" for Obama in 2004, then that means that Obama is basically lying when he says that his connections with Ayers were

-A long time ago
-Not that involved
-Not that important.

However, while I think that the article makes a compelling case, its hardly a 'smoking gun'.

Darilian
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Morgan Dontanville
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I understand why you are panicking. I do. I felt the same way with Bush both election years. I thought America was FUBAR (rather it may only be FU, we will have to see if we qualify for the BAR part).

I really sympathize with you, Drew.

I honestly don't feel assured that Obama will win, so you still have hope. I guess that is what this is. Some desperate plea. A last ditch effort, fingers crossed hoping that something will stick.

Just as I thought it was silly for another respected member to post a link from Talking Point Memo (clearly an over-biased site), these last two October posts of yours are weak.

Give me something significant to discuss please, I know you can.
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Morgan Dontanville
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Drew1365 wrote:
sisteray wrote:
Give me something significant to discuss please, I know you can.


On the Underground is at Tanga for $20.00 . . . should I grab it?


Chances are if you wait, you can trade a game you want to get rid of for it.
 
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Already sold out.
 
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TheLightSarcastic wrote:
as George Will(!!!) put it, "being savaged by a dead sheep."


Of course he took the phrase from Denis Healey.
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Drew1365 wrote:
Hmmm . . . the evidence is pretty stong for this one. Doubt it'll cause any diehard Obama supporter to gasp in horror, but it does make me wonder what else the guy is hiding.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/who_wrote_dreams_from...

Excerpt:

Quote:
. . . [T]here are only two real possibilities: one is that Obama experienced a near miraculous turnaround in his literary abilities; the second is that he had major editorial help, up to and including a ghostwriter.

The weight of the evidence overwhelming favors the latter conclusion and strongly suggests who that ghostwriter is. In that this remains something of a work in progress, I am willing to test my hypothesis against any standard of proof and appreciate any and all good leads.

In my career in advertising and publishing, I have reviewed the portfolios of a thousand professional writers, all of them crowded with writing samples, but only a handful of these writers would have been capable of having a written a book as stylish as Dreams. I have also written a book on intellectual fraud, Hoodwinked, and examined any number of bogus biographies that excited the literary left to the point of complicity, Edward Said's and Rigoberta Menchu's prominent among them, Menchu winning a Nobel Prize for hers. Obama's ascent seems to follow a century-old pattern.

Tracing Obama's literary ascent is complicated by what Politico.com calls a "scant paper trail." That trail begins at Occidental College whose literary magazine published two of Obama's poems -- "Pop" and "Underground" -- in 1981. Obama calls it some "very bad poetry," and he does not sell himself short.

. . .

It would be another decade before Obama had anything in print and this an edited, unsigned student case comment in the Harvard Law Review unearthed by Politico. Attorneys who reviewed the piece for Politico described it as "a fairly standard example of the genre."

Of note, Politico reporters Ben Smith and Jeffrey Resner observe that "the temperate legal language doesn't display the rhetorical heights that run through his memoir, published a few years later."

Once elected president of the Harvard Law Review --more of a popularity than a literary contest -- Obama contributed not one signed word to the HLR or any other law journal. As Matthew Franck has pointed out in National Review Online, "A search of the HeinOnline database of law journals turns up exactly nothing credited to Obama in any law review anywhere at any time."

A 1990 New York Times profile on Obama's election as Harvard's first black president caught the eye of agent Jane Dystel. She persuaded Poseidon, a small imprint of Simon & Schuster, to authorize a roughly $125,000 advance for Obama's proposed memoir.

With advance in hand, Obama repaired to Chicago where he dithered. At one point, in order to finish without interruption, he and wife Michelle decamped to Bali. Obama was supposed to have finished the book within a year. Bali or not, advance or no, he could not. He was surely in way over his head.

According to a surprisingly harsh 2006 article by liberal publisher Peter Osnos, which detailed the "ruthlessness" of Obama's literary ascent, Simon & Schuster canceled the contract. Dystel did not give up. She solicited Times Book, the division of Random House at which Osnos was publisher. He met with Obama, took his word that he could finish the book, and authorized a new advance of $40,000.

Then suddenly, somehow, the muse descended on Obama and transformed him from a struggling, unschooled amateur, with no paper trail beyond an unremarkable legal note and a poem about fig-stomping apes, into a literary superstar.


. . .


Read the whole thing. Fascinating.

Again, dyed-in-the-wool Obama supporters will say this means nothing. For the rest of us . . . well, who is this Obama guy really? It's getting even harder to tell.


The "AmericanThinker.com" website should change their name to "American Christian Fundamentalist Ignorance Non-Thinker Propoganda.com

thank you I'll be here all night. arrrh
 
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Steve Bernhardt
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Obama wrote his own books, which is common knowledge.

In fact, Christopher Buckley (son of William, of course) said this, "I've read Obama's books, and they are first-rate. He is that rara avis, the politician who writes his own books. Imagine."
 
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"A more reliable data-driven way to prove authorship goes under the rubric "cusum analysis" or QSUM. This analysis begins with the measurement of sentence length, a significant and telling variable. To compare the two books, I selected thirty-sentence sequences from Dreams and Fugitive Days, each of which relates the author's entry into the world of "community organizing."

"Fugitive Days" averaged 23.13 words a sentence. "Dreams" averaged 23.36 words a sentence. By contrast, the memoir section of "Sucker Punch"
(the authors own memoir) averaged 15 words a sentence."

Hmm... I selected 30-sentence sequences from Obama's book and the Bible. Obama's book averaged 20.34 words per sentence. The Bible average 20.14 words per sentance!!! As a control I compared it to a hack and slash fantasy/porn book I was writing in eight grade, which averaged 12.02 words per sentence.

IRREFUTABLE PROOF THAT GOD WROTE OBAMA'S BOOK!!

Amazing what you can do when you get to select your own data and use your own fucking self as the control. Sheesh.

The quote above, by the way, is the best "evidence" contained in the article, which we can now safely print out and wipe our asses with, that being the most productive use to which it can be put I think.

Drew, who do I see about getting that five minutes of my life back? Palin?
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mdp4828 wrote:
Drew, who do I see about getting that five minutes of my life back? Palin?

October Surprise: Five Minutes In Heaven With The Vice-President!
 
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mdp4828 wrote:
As a control I compared it to a hack and slash fantasy/porn book I was writing in eight grade, which averaged 12.02 words per sentence.

Marshall, you started out this well, and ended up writing short stories on BGG. I think you have wasted more than just 5 min of your life.

p.s. God didn't write the Bible. Try the Koran if you want divine authorship.
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Latria wrote:

p.s. God didn't write the Bible. Try the Koran if you want divine authorship.


Impling that Obama is a muslim and Allah wrote his book! Well played sir. Drew, do you have Palin's email? I have a new line of attack. Nevermind, I'll get it off the internet.
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Drew, you have really embarrassed yourself with the last few threads you've started on RSP.

 
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