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Conflict of Heroes: Storms of Steel! – Kursk 1943» Forums » General

Subject: Why buy Awakening the Bear? rss

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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Steel Rain currently looks very sexy to me. Now, I'm wondering why I should buy Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42, which has 33% less counters (less variety), and no airplanes.

I have decided not to hear the sirens that are singing to my ears that Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 is a great game that I should get right now. devil I'm ready to wait for a year for an even better game in a similar genre, because there are enough games in my collection to keep me busy for that time. Space and money are also an issue: if I buy Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 now, I won't buy Steel Rain later.

Well, to tell the truth, it's hard to resist to Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42, but doing so would be a great exercise in Zen practice. Arguments against buying it now would help. What would Steel Rain be missing that Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 has, beyond the idea that some of the new mechanics might not be to the liking of everybody (which I hope won't happen)?
 
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James Palmer
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Well, the tactics and feel of the battles will be quite different because of different command structures and technology later in the war.

Also, there will be firefights released that use all of the maps, and you'll have less than half the maps available if you only get Steel Rain.

Plus, you'll be going who knows how long without playing this amazing game!

I think if they were being released at the same time, I could certainly see people just buying Steel Rain, but as it is, I can't see anyone splurging on Awakening the Bear instead of waiting and regretting it.
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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Thanks for sharing this, James! Awakening the Bear is indeed extremely tempting.

Felkor wrote:
Also, there will be firefights released that use all of the maps, and you'll have less than half the maps available if you only get Steel Rain.

Do you have information on how many "standalone" firefights and how many "combined" ones are planned for Steel Rain?
 
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James Palmer
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No information, but my guess is there will be around 10-12 standalone fights included with the game, and then some bonus "combined" ones will be released online, similar to the swamp map bonus firefight. I can't see Uwe including combined ones right in with the box (well, maybe one). Anyways, this is just me guessing, Uwe would have to respond to this and let us know, although I'm thinking it might be too early for decisions like this to have been made.
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Aaron Gelb
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It's like reading a great book series. Why buy all of them when you could just buy the last installment and see how it ends?

Because you'd be missing the plot development, the instant gratification, and whats the point of playing a historical simulation if you don't follow history?

It'll be so much more pleasing to play 1944 after playing through the older technologies of 1941. And come on, a lot of bgg'ers are completists..so just get the whole series.

 
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Seth Gunar
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Let's start with some basics.

1. CoH is not one self-contained "game". It is a rules system designed to be applied to a multitude of different battle situations (aka, "firefights").

2. Therefore, logically, the amount of gaming the system offers is contingent on the number of scenarios and even more importantly on the number of maps.

So anytime you buy a CoH game, you are not really buying the system (which is useless alone) you are really buying the battles, maps, and components that come with the game.

If you want to know what Awakening the Bear has that Storms of Steel doesn't, the answer is 12 battles and five maps - and presumably the different counters and units.

So - if you buy Storms and do not buy Awakening the Bear, you will have 12 less battles to play, 5 less maps to play them on, and many less counters to put on those maps.

Sometimes you must belabor the obvious.

Similarly, ASL has been around for 30 years. It is a great system with an ongoing pipeline of scenarios and maps from MMP. If you want to play new battles you acquire the new or old modules. The same will be true of CoH.

Anyway, CoH is a great tactical system. It is simple without taking away from the flavor of WWII tactical battles. You can teach anyone to play in 10 minutes or less.

If you PLAY CoH, I am sure that you will want to get your hands on as many maps and scenarios that you can.
 
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Eric O. LEBIGOT
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GameWhore wrote:
So - if you buy Storms and do not buy Awakening the Bear, you will have 12 less battles to play, 5 less maps to play them on, and many less counters to put on those maps.

Sometimes you must belabor the obvious.

12 scenarios is already a lot when you have 50+ games in your collections and play a game once a week on average. And I guess (hope ) that scenarios in Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42 don't always play the same! So, having only one installment of the series would be quite enough for me.

Anyway, I could not resist to the temptation: I just bought Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42; the only problem is that my wife had afterthoughts and is not at all tempted by the idea of playing. soblue Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Barry Kendall
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Another reason to buy: the scenario note for scenario three mentions that in this particular game, the designer chose to represent German infantry squads in two elements (infantry and the MG34 section) rather than one counter to reflect the tactical sophistication and doctrine in use in the German Army in 1941/42.

This suggests to me that German infantry will play differently in the later-war volume. The evolution of infantry doctrine and interaction through the war seems to me a sound justification for buying "Awakening the Bear." Plus, as others have pointed out, why miss out on such a good thing for another year?

 
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Bob Gibson
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Not sure why the game producer went with '43-'45, rather than an expanding to the Pacific Theater, or even Western Europe. Money's tight for me and, from my past experience through the expansions of Memoir and Commands and Colors, I feel that I'd be better off using my expendible boardgaming money toward other new games. With that said, I pass.
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Keith Anderson
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GameWhore wrote:
Let's start with some basics.

1. CoH is not one self-contained "game". It is a rules system designed to be applied to a multitude of different battle situations (aka, "firefights").

2. Therefore, logically, the amount of gaming the system offers is contingent on the number of scenarios and even more importantly on the number of maps.

So anytime you buy a CoH game, you are not really buying the system (which is useless alone) you are really buying the battles, maps, and components that come with the game.

If you want to know what Awakening the Bear has that Storms of Steel doesn't, the answer is 12 battles and five maps - and presumably the different counters and units.

So - if you buy Storms and do not buy Awakening the Bear, you will have 12 less battles to play, 5 less maps to play them on, and many less counters to put on those maps.

Sometimes you must belabor the obvious.

Similarly, ASL has been around for 30 years. It is a great system with an ongoing pipeline of scenarios and maps from MMP. If you want to play new battles you acquire the new or old modules. The same will be true of CoH.

Anyway, CoH is a great tactical system. It is simple without taking away from the flavor of WWII tactical battles. You can teach anyone to play in 10 minutes or less.

If you PLAY CoH, I am sure that you will want to get your hands on as many maps and scenarios that you can.


I'm really enjoying CoH. I would hope that each of the products that they release will also come with a committment to add many more scenarios for the purchased product either online or even by selling additional scenario booklets. If this happens then missing 12 scenarios from another release should not be too critical. If it does not happen, then there would be a disappointingly low number of scenarios to use with Awakening the Bear for the cost and number of boards/pieces already available especially since so many of the scenarios are partial rules training scenarios. Of course I say this as a person who maintains a small collection, who would rather buy a new game than an expansion in most cases and who does not need to complete a collection - perhaps not the target audience.
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Brandon Pennington
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Are there plans to include different theaters into the mix eventually? I really, really like this system and would love to see some different nations brought into the mix!
 
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James Palmer
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TGov wrote:
Are there plans to include different theaters into the mix eventually? I really, really like this system and would love to see some different nations brought into the mix!


Yes, we will see both nationality packs as expansions come out, as well as modules in the future covering different theatres and time periods, with different nations.
 
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Brandon Pennington
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Felkor wrote:
TGov wrote:
Are there plans to include different theaters into the mix eventually? I really, really like this system and would love to see some different nations brought into the mix!


Yes, we will see both nationality packs as expansions come out, as well as modules in the future covering different theatres and time periods, with different nations.


Awesome! Thanks for responding. I would really love to see a modern type version as there doesn't seem to be too many accessible modern combat games out there.
 
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James Palmer
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TGov wrote:
Felkor wrote:
TGov wrote:
Are there plans to include different theaters into the mix eventually? I really, really like this system and would love to see some different nations brought into the mix!


Yes, we will see both nationality packs as expansions come out, as well as modules in the future covering different theatres and time periods, with different nations.


Awesome! Thanks for responding. I would really love to see a modern type version as there doesn't seem to be too many accessible modern combat games out there.


We'll be seeing modern combat too. I'm not sure when but I am also very excited about that possibility.

Right now on the schedule is:

Conflict of Heroes: Kursk (previously Storms of Steel) - should be out spring or summer of this year (I'm guessing summer.)

Conflict of Heroes: North Africa - due out winter of 2010.

Mixed in there should be a nationality pack or two I believe, but I'm not really too sure of the details on those.
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Graham Smallwood
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GameWhore wrote:

1. CoH is not one self-contained "game". It is a rules system designed to be applied to a multitude of different battle situations (aka, "firefights").


You don't get to be called a system until you have rules for making your own fights. Otherwise it is a game with 12 scenarios. Game == Discrete. System == Rules for infinite gaming. Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage == Game. Warhammer == System.

*pout*
 
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Marcin Woźniak
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battlelore + CtA = system
Battlelore standalone = game
 
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Jack Smith
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Well that's what they are likely to do I suspect. ATS does it the same way, you can pick a self contained game for the arena that interests you and learn the whole system at the same time. They also issue cheaper mini expansions with more scenarios, boards and counters tied to a main game. That way your not forced to buy into a period your not interested in, the main reason I do not play ASL.
 
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