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Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! – Russia 1941-42» Forums » Rules

Subject: Trouble with Trucks rss

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Scott Chelette
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Anyone else run into cases where Trucks seem unrealistic or overpowered?

For example:

Trucks used to discover hidden units.

"Assault" Trucks driving right up to an enemy position. One way to abuse this is to use the truck as cover. Move an empty truck to a key position - for example, directly in front of an enemy bunker. Then in a separate activation move up infantry and take advantage of +1DM from the truck. Rules section 21.0 should probably be changed so that only armored vehicles offer cover.

Trucks contributing to close combat against tanks. A truck contributing +1FP to CC against infantry is OK, but against a tank?

Trucks used to take control of victory hexes.





 
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James Palmer
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Trucks are so easy to destroy, that while they can be used for those sorts of things, you're just looking to give your opponent some victory points and lose yourself CAPs in future rounds.

In some firefights (like #8), they even give your opponent extra points, so it's even more important to be careful with them.
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Shane Meehan
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If someone fires AT fire at my truck and the truck is destroyed, a second roll occurs using the infantry fire value of the same weapon to determine if the squad it was carrying is hit, correct?

If so, the most common result of this is truck=destoryed and infantry=unharmed. My GF pointed out that she thought this was a bit unrealistic that a tank could blow a transport to holy hell and nobody inside took any damage.
 
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Henric Blyvall
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Maybe trucks should have a red DV? I mean, you should be able to put them out of action quite easily with a LMG at least.

And BTW, trucks have 1 AV and I guess you can imagine the crew getting out and firing of a few rounds in self defense. But if that´s the case, why do wagons have nil AV? (Sorry if there already was a discussion about this...)

/Henric

 
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James Palmer
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KamratMolotov wrote:
And BTW, trucks have 1 AV and I guess you can imagine the crew getting out and firing of a few rounds in self defense.


I would think that the crew is somewhat required to stay put when horses are involved. They aren't very fond of gunfire, and the crew abandoning them to attack would probably upset them.
 
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Henric Blyvall
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Hmm yeah you´re probably right about that. I think maybe they didnt prepare the horses for war the way they did it centuries ago. I read somewhere that the swedish army (we´re talking like the 30-years war here, 1600s) trained the horses by walking them around and firing musquets and firecrackers, blowing horns and drumming. So they got used to it
 
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James Palmer
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KamratMolotov wrote:
Hmm yeah you´re probably right about that. I think maybe they didnt prepare the horses for war the way they did it centuries ago. I read somewhere that the swedish army (we´re talking like the 30-years war here, 1600s) trained the horses by walking them around and firing musquets and firecrackers, blowing horns and drumming. So they got used to it


Or just completely lost their hearing.
 
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Henric Blyvall
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I have nothing to do so I keep firing away at this thread: I like having the trucks and wagons, but I think that their only real purpose for the scope of this game is to simulate ambushes and other surprise encounters. If they suddenly find themselves in the thick of fighting, someone made a wrong turn somewhere along the road to Moscow.
 
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James Palmer
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KamratMolotov wrote:
I have nothing to do so I keep firing away at this thread: I like having the trucks and wagons, but I think that their only real purpose for the scope of this game is to simulate ambushes and other surprise encounters. If they suddenly find themselves in the thick of fighting, someone made a wrong turn somewhere along the road to Moscow.


I agree with you.

Of course, I could also see someone using a truck to make a mad dash towards a control hex at the end of a turn. Rarely a smart idea though.

Also, with hidden units, you may not be aware that you brought the truck into the thick of fighting... you might end up wandering into the fire lane of a hidden MMG you didn't realize had LOS from across the map.

Overall I haven't had anything that seemed to unrealistic. The one time I attacked a wagon with my mortar, I hit both the wagon and the infantry inside, and both pulled the "pinned" counter. Seemed to come across very realistic to me!
 
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Henric Blyvall
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Felkor wrote:
KamratMolotov wrote:
Hmm yeah you´re probably right about that. I think maybe they didnt prepare the horses for war the way they did it centuries ago. I read somewhere that the swedish army (we´re talking like the 30-years war here, 1600s) trained the horses by walking them around and firing musquets and firecrackers, blowing horns and drumming. So they got used to it


Or just completely lost their hearing.


-What? What did that crazy shouting man just say? That we´ll charge that line of pike wielding catholics?!? Well what the heck, why not? Come on! laugh
 
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Henric Blyvall
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Felkor wrote:
KamratMolotov wrote:
I have nothing to do so I keep firing away at this thread: I like having the trucks and wagons, but I think that their only real purpose for the scope of this game is to simulate ambushes and other surprise encounters. If they suddenly find themselves in the thick of fighting, someone made a wrong turn somewhere along the road to Moscow.


I agree with you.

Of course, I could also see someone using a truck to make a mad dash towards a control hex at the end of a turn. Rarely a smart idea though.

Also, with hidden units, you may not be aware that you brought the truck into the thick of fighting... you might end up wandering into the fire lane of a hidden MMG you didn't realize had LOS from across the map.

Overall I haven't had anything that seemed to unrealistic. The one time I attacked a wagon with my mortar, I hit both the wagon and the infantry inside, and both pulled the "pinned" counter. Seemed to come across very realistic to me!


That´s good to hear!

I´m still waiting for the game and I just realised being around this forum every day (it´s like an addiction now) isn´t making the wait any easier. I have to cut down on this drug! At least it´s enough for today!! ...Maybe...........
 
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James Palmer
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KamratMolotov wrote:
I´m still waiting for the game and I just realised being around this forum every day (it´s like an addiction now) isn´t making the wait any easier. I have to cut down on this drug! At least it´s enough for today!! ...Maybe...........


Once you get it and realize you can't find opponents or time to be able to play this game every day, you find that these forums are still the drug of choice as you wait for the next opportunity to play...
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Henric Blyvall
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Felkor wrote:
KamratMolotov wrote:
I´m still waiting for the game and I just realised being around this forum every day (it´s like an addiction now) isn´t making the wait any easier. I have to cut down on this drug! At least it´s enough for today!! ...Maybe...........


Once you get it and realize you can't find opponents or time to be able to play this game every day, you find that these forums are still the drug of choice as you wait for the next opportunity to play...


Well James, now it seems I will soon be able to see if thats true. I just got word I could pick up the game this saturday!
 
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James Palmer
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KamratMolotov wrote:
Felkor wrote:
KamratMolotov wrote:
I´m still waiting for the game and I just realised being around this forum every day (it´s like an addiction now) isn´t making the wait any easier. I have to cut down on this drug! At least it´s enough for today!! ...Maybe...........


Once you get it and realize you can't find opponents or time to be able to play this game every day, you find that these forums are still the drug of choice as you wait for the next opportunity to play...


Well James, now it seems I will soon be able to see if thats true. I just got word I could pick up the game this saturday!


Huzzah!
 
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Scott Chelette
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Felkor wrote:
Trucks are so easy to destroy, that while they can be used for those sorts of things, you're just looking to give your opponent some victory points and lose yourself CAPs in future rounds.

In some firefights (like #8), they even give your opponent extra points, so it's even more important to be careful with them.
Point well taken - losing a Truck costs VP and CAP. On the other hand, Trucks seem a little too tough with 11 Blue defense. IMHO Trucks should be more fragile and more vulnerable to small arms fire. For example, 10 Red defense and only one hit to kill.
 
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James Palmer
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Dr.Cornelius wrote:
Felkor wrote:
Trucks are so easy to destroy, that while they can be used for those sorts of things, you're just looking to give your opponent some victory points and lose yourself CAPs in future rounds.

In some firefights (like #8), they even give your opponent extra points, so it's even more important to be careful with them.
Point well taken - losing a Truck costs VP and CAP. On the other hand, Trucks seem a little too tough with 11 Blue defense. IMHO Trucks should be more fragile and more vulnerable to small arms fire. For example, 10 Red defense and only one hit to kill.


While on the board of course, the truck isn't moving when it's being fired at, I think the idea is that in general it would be, and a truck driving along would probably not be too easily taken down by some riflemen.

And an 11 isn't -that- high of a defense, so that a rifle at long range still has -some- abilitiy to hit, and at short range is almost 50/50.

A tank or AT gun on the other hand could blow a truck away quite easily... this makes sense to me.

Anyways, I'm no expert on these sorts of things, but I don't think they seem too far off.
 
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Scott Chelette
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The key is that Trucks take two hits to destroy. When a truck is being used to flush out hidden units or provide +1 defense for an infantry attack or +1 to a rally attempt it does not hurt the attacking player much to have the truck take one hit. If the truck takes a second hit then there are consequences, but if the truck has absorbed two shots then it is not that bad. Remember - the game is only 5 turns long and each unit will only get in so many shots.

To put it another way, in the current setup trucks are too close to being functionally equivalent to halftracks. I am not a big fan of assault trucks in any system, and CoH is no worse than some. From a historical perspective, there are good reasons why halftracks existed, and trucks should not be able to act like halftracks.
 
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Henric Blyvall
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Dr.Cornelius wrote:
The key is that Trucks take two hits to destroy. When a truck is being used to flush out hidden units or provide +1 defense for an infantry attack or +1 to a rally attempt it does not hurt the attacking player much to have the truck take one hit. If the truck takes a second hit then there are consequences, but if the truck has absorbed two shots then it is not that bad. Remember - the game is only 5 turns long and each unit will only get in so many shots.

To put it another way, in the current setup trucks are too close to being functionally equivalent to halftracks. I am not a big fan of assault trucks in any system, and CoH is no worse than some. From a historical perspective, there are good reasons why halftracks existed, and trucks should not be able to act like halftracks.


In fact I think even the halftracks was so vunerable that they seldom used them to drive straight up to the enemy. The grenadiers would dismount and the ht help provide suppressive fire. For what it´s worth, I know from playing Combat Mission a lot that assaulting dug in infantry with halftrucks is a risky business
 
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