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Subject: Does the Z-Man reprint have the 9 business outlook cards or not? rss

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Jeff Michaud
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Does the Z-Man reprint have the 9 business outlook cards or not?

Since the rules for the reprint edition have been posted I noticed it missing and don't remember hearing if the business outlook cards (which were the only language dependent components of the original Alea edition) are not included in the reprint or if they are and the rules just don't list them?

I also checked funagain which lists the components and they are the same as the Z-Man rules.

The original (Alea) has:

1 Game Board
150 Player counters (30 each of 5 colours)
90 Business Tiles
180 Playing Cards (85 Plot Cards, 9 business outlook cards, 81 Money Cards, 5 player aids)

The reprint (Z-Man) has:

5 Player Aid cards
85 Building cards
84 Money cards (in $10,000, $50,000, $100,000 and $200,000 bills)
90 Shop tiles 1 First Player card 150 Ownership markers (30 each in 5 different colors)
1 Year marker
1 game board
1 linen bag
 
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Tim Harrison
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I played the new edition last night. Unless I totally missed something, it does not have those 9 cards.

Which begs the question, what are they?
 
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9 cards; shuffle them and only use 6 - one in each round. The cards have a bonus:

$ 1000 for each 3 building you own
$ 1000 for each 4 building you own
$ 1000 for each 5 building you own
$ 1000 for each 6 building you own
$ 1000 for each 3&4 building you own
$ 1000 for each 5&6 building you own
No bonus (3 cards)
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Tim Harrison
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Are those cards revealed at the beginning or end of each round? And does it include all tiles, on and off board?
 
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Jeff Michaud
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
Are those cards revealed at the beginning or end of each round? And does it include all tiles, on and off board?

At the end of the round, and only tiles on the board you own (w/your markers on them).

From the English translation of the Alea (German) rules at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/22484/Chinatown_E...

"The Business Outlook Cards are also shuffled and placed beside the
board. Take 3 cards at random and place them in the box. The remaining
6 cards are placed face down beside the board. One card is flipped each
round and is used to randomly award income to the type(s) of tile listed.
A secondary function is to keep track of the number of rounds that have
been played.
"

"5th phase: Earn Income
Once all players have finished placing their business tiles, the top
Business Outlook card is turned over."

"The fact that these businesses may not have reached their maximum
size (Finished) does not have any influence on the additional incomes.
The Business Outlook card is then discarded.
"
 
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Tim Harrison
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I see. I'm glad that doesn't sound like something my group would miss. Thanks for the explanation.

By the way, the production quality of the new edition is very good, imho.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
I'm glad that doesn't sound like something my group would miss.

But it sure would be nice to have the option to play with or without them

Maybe someone in the know (Zev or the play testers if there were any for the reprint) can fill us in why they were left out?
 
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JeffyJeff wrote:
GamesOnTheBrain wrote:
I'm glad that doesn't sound like something my group would miss.

But it sure would be nice to have the option to play with or without them

Maybe someone in the know (Zev or the play testers if there were any for the reprint) can fill us in why they were left out?


On the good side of things, it's something easily created if you want to play that way. Shoot, you could just draw poker chips out of a bag and have different colors represent different bonuses.
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Verkisto wrote:
On the good side of things, it's something easily created if you want to play that way. Shoot, you could just draw poker chips out of a bag and have different colors represent different bonuses.

I could also easily create a whole homemade game if I wanted to do the work to make a game whole Especially for a $70 MSRP reprint Now I see why the prices of the original Alea printing have gone up
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I guess my point is that it's not hard OR expensive to add this variant back into the game.
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Verkisto wrote:
I guess my point is that it's not hard OR expensive to add this variant back into the game.

I understand, but I still don't understand why this component (it wasn't a variant but part of the game) was removed in the reprint... I've never heard of anyone complaining about it, though I could have missed it. And it obviously wasn't taken out to keep the cost down
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they must have shifted the cost to the massive board and box.
They're absolute whoppers.

I'm not very happy with this trend to bigger things. Being a Texan, normally bigger is better, unfortunately in games, bigger is more expensive and it doesn't really give you anything much in return.

In addition, I doubt the board will actually fit on my gaming buddies dining room table at 3' by 2.5'


Just as a side note, in case Zev and any other publishers are reading, I prefer bookshelf boxes, like the 3m series and the original alea series. They're easy to store, look great on a bookshelf next to books, are awesome in libraries, and best of all, they fit in my backpack. Games that don't fit in my backpack don't get taken out very often. Games that don't get taken out very often don't get played much. I don't like buying games that I will rarely play.
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I keep seeing Z-Man pop up in this thread. I may be wrong here, but I was under the impression the Filosofia handled the redesign & printing of this game, and Z-Man Games role was limited to importing it to the US.

I'm not sure how much say Z-Man had in the design decisions, such as more expensive components , removing the business outlook cards, etc...
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Bagherra wrote:



Just as a side note, in case Zev and any other publishers are reading, I prefer bookshelf boxes, like the 3m series and the original alea series. They're easy to store, look great on a bookshelf next to books, are awesome in libraries, and best of all, they fit in my backpack. Games that don't fit in my backpack don't get taken out very often. Games that don't get taken out very often don't get played much. I don't like buying games that I will rarely play.


Consider this seconded. I move around a lot and prefer games that pack small, like the 3m boxes or smaller.
 
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BaSL wrote:
9 cards; shuffle them and only use 6 - one in each round. The cards have a bonus:

$ 1000 for each 3 building you own
$ 1000 for each 4 building you own
$ 1000 for each 5 building you own
$ 1000 for each 6 building you own
$ 1000 for each 3&4 building you own
$ 1000 for each 5&6 building you own
No bonus (3 cards)


Does the 9 cards add more chaos? What is the benefit of the 9 cards to the game?
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chaosbreaker wrote:
What is the benefit of the 9 cards to the game?

I think it's to encourage folks to diversify.
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This, and the fact that the Z-man games edition was going to be $70, was for me the reason to buy the old Alea edition for $70 instead a few months ago. I wanted the 9 cards and I didn't want to wait anymore for the reprint and I also liked the artwork on the Alea edition far more...

First we played the game with the cards open every round so you knew what was coming. Later we decided to reveal them at the end of the round.

It adds a small element of luck into the game and it can help you. Sometimes you just know you are going to finish 2nd or 3rd, then in the last round you are going to gamble that a certain card will show up. If it works it can be just enough to maybe win the game, if not, oh well you tried and you were going to lose already anyhow.
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Played a game of the new version in Essen. Looks really nice, good materials, box is too big, though.

Someone from Filosofia asked for our opinion; we told him we missed the bonuscards. He might make them available after all; via download from the site or as a small giveaway.

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BaSL wrote:
Someone from Filosofia asked for our opinion; we told him we missed the bonuscards. He might make them available after all; via download from the site or as a small giveaway.

Did any ask Filosofia why they removed that part of the game in the 1st place?

Well hopefully given the price it should be available from the publishers (including Z-Man in the States).... a "download" just feels cheap
 
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The luck-factor.
 
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JeffyJeff wrote:
chaosbreaker wrote:
What is the benefit of the 9 cards to the game?

I think it's to encourage folks to diversify.


From my experience, it does two things.

1) Adds incentive to get your tiles down. Without the cards, you'll tend to hang back a little more trying to find the best spot for your tiles. But there is a chance that you'll miss out on some income if you do that.

A corollary is that it gives a little comeback benefit to folks who have tiles down but who may not be doing that well in creating big clusters.

2) The luck is modest enough to add a little fun without throwing the game. I do like that moment of turning the cards over to see if the areas I've concentrated in get a bit of a bonus payoff.

I think the luck is pretty small. It's not often that one person is deeply invested in the type of building whose cards DIDN'T come out. But the factor in #1 does come into play a little. A tad like "when is the scoring card in Union Pacific going to show up?".

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I thought it was kind of odd that both the bonus cards and the variant rule about street access were removed. I mean, I never played with that optional - even though I'm a big Chinatown fan, we never played it a ton since deal-making games tend not to get a lot of table time - but why take it out?

For my part, I like the bonus cards, although I can see it being a matter of taste. Taking them out due to the "luck factor" seems kind of a silly reason, though. There is already a lot of luck in the game, with the timing of the flow of the plots and businesses. The luck factor of the bonus cards makes the values of deals less exactly calculable, which seems like a good thing to me. It's just another thing to factor into the dealmaking.

While in general the new edition is nice, I really don't like the money. It's very hard to distinguish the different denominations and easy to make mistakes. The original bills were much nicer, with crisper, clearer denominations. It's a shame to have an overall very nice presentation compromised by a critical usability problem.
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Wouldn't the easiest thing be to roll a 10-sided die for what bonus is each turn and re-roll if a '0' or previous bonus is reviealed?

What was the street access rule?
 
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chris1nd wrote:
Wouldn't the easiest thing be to roll a 10-sided die for what bonus is each turn and re-roll if a '0' or previous bonus is reviealed?

What was the street access rule?

If I wanted to get into making missing game components I might as well just make home made editions of the whole game

In any case, rules for the business outlook cards and for the street access variant can be found in the English translation of the original English rules at http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/download/22484/Chinatown_E...
 
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