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Clash of Monarchs» Forums » Rules

Subject: Surprise Attack Tactic rss

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beresford dickens
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15.1.1 How can the Austrian Surprise Attack Tactic prohibit the enemy from attacking......

a) If the enemy had to attack in order for there to be a battle in the first place?

b) If Tactics aren't played until 15.4.3, in attack/defense order.
 
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Chris Janiec
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Per 14.1.1, the Austrian player can reveal the Surprise Attack! Tactic "early" when an enemy force announces it will attempt to Withdraw. The enemy force can no longer attempt withdrawal, and cannot attack -- the Austrian Command in this case is always the attacker.
 
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beresford dickens
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Unfortunately 15.1.1 doesn't talk about Withdrawal, it just says that the Austrian Surprise Attack tactic prohibits the enemy from attacking.

Assuming that what is meant is that if the enemy had attempted to Withdraw it now can't attack, there are more questions:

1. 14.1.1 says that the Austrian player may 'reveal' the Tactic but doesn't say that this expends the Tactic or that the Tactic must be played/resolved in the coming battle or whether the Tactic counts towards the total that the Austrian force can play in the battle.

2. Can a Routed Command play the Surprise Attack tactic to prevent Withdrawal? (cf 15.4.3) It is implied by the word 'Command' that the Austrian force must have a Leader.
 
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Mike Haggett
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The answer to 2 is no, per 16.2 routed forces may not use tactics.

14.1.1, in the exception, states that the Austrian force must then attack; to my mind, that pretty much rules out the attempted withdrawer from attacking.

For 1, you need to read the description of the event on the charts. It is very clear that a) the chit must be played as your first one and b) that it must be played in order to prevent the withdrawal. So by revealing the chit, the Austrians commit themselves to playing it as their first tac chit of the battle, otherwise the withdrawal would have been allowed to occur.
 
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Chris Janiec
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Quote:
1. 14.1.1 says that the Austrian player may 'reveal' the Tactic but doesn't say that this expends the Tactic or that the Tactic must be played/resolved in the coming battle or whether the Tactic counts towards the total that the Austrian force can play in the battle.


The Surprise Attack! Tactic must then be the first Tactic played in the battle. Note the instruction "Enemy force may not Withdraw" is included in its effects on the Tactics Chart, implying the Tactic must be played for this to apply.

Quote:
2. Can a Routed Command play the Surprise Attack tactic to prevent Withdrawal? (cf 15.4.3)


No. Per 16.2, Routed Commands may not use Tactics.

Quote:
It is implied by the word 'Command' that the Austrian force must have a Leader.

Correct. Per 15.4, "All Commands may use Tactics in battles" -- forces without Leaders are not Commands [4.1] and may not use Tactics.
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beresford dickens
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OK, now what happens if a Prussian Force moves onto an Austrian Force and attacks it and the Austrian would like to use the Surprise Attack Tactic? The Tactic is not limited to 'play if you are attacking' in the chart.

Or are we saying that this Tactic can ONLY be used to prevent an enemy Withdrawing, and played at that point?

Do both sides still draw Tactics and can the Austrian play additional Tactics in the normal part of the Battle sequence?
 
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Mike Haggett
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Quote:
OK, now what happens if a Prussian Force moves onto an Austrian Force and attacks it and the Austrian would like to use the Surprise Attack Tactic? The Tactic is not limited to 'play if you are attacking' in the chart.


15.1.1, the Austrian can prevent the other force from attacking first. Again, playing the chit in this manner commits the Austrians to attacking and using the Surprise attack as their first chit. Note that first choice for attacker is based on initiative, so the Austrians may or may not be able to attack first anyway depending on comparative initiatives.

Quote:
Or are we saying that this Tactic can ONLY be used to prevent an enemy Withdrawing, and played at that point?


No, it can be played per 15.1.1 as well. Or played if the Austrians are attacking, when it is simply revealed as the first chit.

Quote:
Do both sides still draw Tactics and can the Austrian play additional Tactics in the normal part of the Battle sequence?


The chit says the enemy may not play any chits, but doesn't mention drawing them, so if you have less than 3 (and 10 or more sp at the battle), yes you draw. From the chit text, it looks like the Austrians could indeed play a second chit if their commander is eligible. Although with a +5 or +7 DRM cap, I'm not sure you'd need to if the DR for the tactic is successful
 
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beresford dickens
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So you are saying that the opponent, if attacking, can prevent the use of Surprise Attack by playing ANY Tactic himself. Congratulations, you have found a use for the 'Blown March' chits
 
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Mike Haggett
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I'm not sure how you got that interpretation from what I wrote.shake Surprise attack can be used to pre-empt an opponent that chooses to attack (because their leader has better initiative), to pre-empt an opponent attempting to withdraw, or by the Austrians if they are attacking. In the first two cases, the chit is revealed to allow the Austrians to be the attacker and that counts as their first tac chit play. I suppose you could play it as your first chit when you defend, but it wouldn't have any effect...in which case it would be like a blown march
 
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Chris Janiec
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This thread led to a long discussion between Bob and I on exactly when the Surprise Attack! Tactic can be used. Because this is the only Tactic that is "used" before a battle takes place, we decided to add a new rule 15.4.5 explaining how this works while clarifying the Exceptions. The short version is that it can be played whenever an Austrian Command moves or Intercepts into a space with an enemy force to prevent enemy Withdrawal; the Austrian Command must then attack. This should clear up any ambiguity.
 
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