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Subject: Refund for your powerplants rss

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Johan van Wijgerden
United Kingdom
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I'm not sure if this is tested or used before. I was playing with friends yesterday (they were playing it for the first time). They were asking whether you get a refund for a powerplant that needs to be disposed of as another one has been bought.

I never thought of this idea, but has anyone done this before? I'm thinking refunds of 1/2 price. This is regardless of how much the powerplant has been bought in the first place. So a for a 12 you'd get back 6, for a 13 you'd also get back 6.

The other thing that attracts me to this is that for teaching purposes a lot of the people on BGG suggests comparing it to reality. But in reality powerplants are not just disposed off, are they?

Anyway, let me know what you think.
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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In reality, you'd probably have to pay for decommissioning them (especially in the case of nuke plants). So maybe you should have to PAY when disposing?
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H-B-G
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This would have the effect of increasing the bids in auctions I would have thought.

In reality, I think Power plants have to be safely decommissioned, which would probably cause extra costs rather than providing a discount. From various recent news coverage, this would be particularly serious in the case of old nuclear plants.

Edit: I see Tom beat me to it.
 
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Eric Clason
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In reality there won't be a limit of 3 power plants per player.

I wouldn't stretch comparing it to reality too far. The more demand for a resources the more it costs, resources fuel power plants, you send power to cities, and it cost more money to connect cities that are further apart. I may have missed 1 or 2 comparisons, but after that the game deviates from reality pretty quickly.

As far as effect on the game, it would make it more attractive to buy non-end game plants that provide a short term benefit (power more cities and/or use cheaper resources). This would lead to more power plants being bought, leading to less congestion in the power plant market and a quicker phase 3. This would tend to mellow the game out since each individual decision about bidding on a plant would be less important.
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Marc Gilutin
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I wouldn't mess with it.
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Johan van Wijgerden
United Kingdom
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Oops, I didn't think of the nuclear bits. That indeed would stretch the comparisons a bit too far compared to reality. Now that would complicate the game a bit more as a variant. Decommissioning plants costing money with the nukes costing more than the other ones.....

I did think of the increases in bidding, which attracts me. From playing the game with different people, to me the bidding doesn't really take off until phase 3. Increasing the interaction earlier on could be a nice spin off. But maybe we're too conservative in our games.

I'll propose it to our little game group and try it out and see what the effects are if they agree.

Thanks for the responses, greatly appriciated!
 
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Sebastian
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Refunding would lower the financial risk for buying a powerplant drastically.

Especially durcing mid-game, when people start calculating weather to buy that 4-city plant and demolish it 3 rounds later or to wait for a better one in 2 rounds.

I think refunding will have a major impact on the financial system of the game. Tell us if you tried it!
 
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Aaron Tubb
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Dreadnaut wrote:
In reality, you'd probably have to pay for decommissioning them (especially in the case of nuke plants). So maybe you should have to PAY when disposing?
I always assumed you sold off extra plants to other (not in the game) utilities. Power utilities buy plants from other utilities all the time; decommissioning a plant after a few turns of using sounds economically questionable on your utility's part.
 
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H-B-G
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Aarontu wrote:
Dreadnaut wrote:
In reality, you'd probably have to pay for decommissioning them (especially in the case of nuke plants). So maybe you should have to PAY when disposing?
I always assumed you sold off extra plants to other (not in the game) utilities. Power utilities buy plants from other utilities all the time; decommissioning a plant after a few turns of using sounds economically questionable on your utility's part.


Yes, but the plants you get rid of in this game are usually essentially obsolete. I don't know how a game turn equates in terms of real time, but I imagine it is a fairly long period so that a few turns would not be unreasonable for the complete lifetime of a plant.
 
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Johan van Wijgerden
United Kingdom
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What impact would refunds have on the game? I think there are three:
1) more powerplants will be considered to be bought
2) more auctioning
3) higher bidding?

I think that most of us would buy as little as possible so that no resources are wasted and you get maximum return of investment.

Therefore one could play with a higher risk strategy. In some of our games it has occured that (despite good shuffling) higher powerplants came in the beginning of the game, whilst the lower ones came after. Just (bad) luck I suppose and in that case it probably won't have a great effect on the game. However if you have the lower plants more at the beginning/middle of the game, one can take advantage of greating buying power as you'll get some elektros back. It may speed up the game a bit as well.
 
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Rik Van Horn
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If it ain't broke, don't fix it, as my grandfather used to tell me.
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Mark Beyak
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jvanwijgerden wrote:
I'll propose it to our little game group and try it out and see what the effects are if they agree.


Just tell them that the salvage value, (or cost of decommissioning) has already been factored into the minimum costs on the plants. That way they can just play the game.
 
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