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Clash of Monarchs» Forums » Rules

Subject: MD ownership rss

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beresford dickens
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1. Which alliance owns an MD......

a) In a fort space (probably the alliance which owns the fort)?

b) In a non-fort space (e.g Berlin)?

2. If the owning alliance has a mixed force in the space, which nation owns the MD?

3. Is commandeering of an allied MD optional or compulsory?

4. If you are currently commandeering a friendly MD, can you voluntarily relinquish it to allow your ally/client/patron to use it for supply?
 
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Chris Janiec
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Quote:
1. Which alliance owns an MD......

a) In a fort space (probably the alliance which owns the fort)?

Correct, per 20.2.1 (admittedly not the most logical place one might look for this).

Quote:
b) In a non-fort space (e.g Berlin)?

The original controlling alliance unless occupied solely by enemy forces.

Quote:
2. If the owning alliance has a mixed force in the space, which nation owns the MD?

The nation with the majority of SPs.

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3. Is commandeering of an allied MD optional or compulsory?

Optional.

Quote:
4. If you are currently commandeering a friendly MD, can you voluntarily relinquish it to allow your ally/client/patron to use it for supply?

Per 9.7.1, "The Captured/Commandeered MD functions as an immobile FD of the controlling nation until the original owner regains control." The only way this can happen is if you abandon the fortress (space in the case of Berlin), which then reverts to the control of the original owning nation.
 
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beresford dickens
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So taking your answers together, if one French SP is the sole occupant of Venlo then it is optional whether they commandeer the Imperial depot, but if they do it can only be returned by vacating the fort such that an Imperial Force has sole occupancy.

Also it is possible for a race to occur in the Berlin space between Austria and Russia to see who can cram in the most SPs and thus lay final claim to the VPs and Thalers.

Three more things have just occurred to me:

1. Can a fort owner refuse admission to an 'Ally' in order to prevent ownership of the fort (and possibly VPs or an MD) from changing? For example, Austria could hold Glogau and Russia could march SPs in to gain a majority and seize control.

2. 8.6.4 says that 'placed' forces cannot be put inside a besieged or masked Fort. Does this mean that they arrive in the space outside the fort? If so, can they be Intercepted and can they Withdraw?

3. 17.1 It's not clear whether SPs must be differentiated as 'inside' or 'outside' a Fort when the space is not contested, and indeed if they can change such status when not activated. I used to think that it didn't matter, but, for example:
a) Fort ownership is decided by a majority of SPs in a mixed Force INSIDE the Fort.
b) SPs which are INSIDE the Fort cannot oppose an enemy Force entering the space. Though they can Withdraw and Intercept???

Suggestion: If possible the rules should be tweaked so that being inside or outside a Fort doesn't matter if the space is not contested. For example, Fort ownership should only change between Allies by mutual consent and 9.2.3 should say that Allied Forces have to be in the Fort space to trace supply, not INSIDE the Fort.

Suggestion: It would be simpler to do away with commandeering of Friendly MDs and just say that you can use Allied/Client/Patron MDs as FDs WHILE they remain MDs for their original owners.
 
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Chris Janiec
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So taking your answers together, if one French SP is the sole occupant of Venlo then it is optional whether they commandeer the Imperial depot, but if they do it can only be returned by vacating the fort such that an Imperial Force has sole occupancy.

The French can vacate the fort and elect not to place a Held marker, in which case it reverts to Imperial control without the need for an Imperial force to be present.

Quote:
Also it is possible for a race to occur in the Berlin space between Austria and Russia to see who can cram in the most SPs and thus lay final claim to the VPs and Thalers.

Yes, though of course Thalers are only tallied by whoever has the most SPs in the space during Spring, and given the Winter Quarters rules I'd be astonished if this isn't the Prussians.

Three more things have just occurred to me:

Quote:
1. Can a fort owner refuse admission to an 'Ally' in order to prevent ownership of the fort (and possibly VPs or an MD) from changing? For example, Austria could hold Glogau and Russia could march SPs in to gain a majority and seize control.

Yes. The converse is also true: you can invite an ally to bring in a larger force in order to transfer control to them (a ploy sometimes used by Coalition players anticipating Elizabeth's demise).

Quote:
2. 8.6.4 says that 'placed' forces cannot be put inside a besieged or masked Fort. Does this mean that they arrive in the space outside the fort? If so, can they be Intercepted and can they Withdraw?

Events instruct the player to place arriving reinforcements either with any XX force(s) or in a specific place. If the former, they can only be placed with a force outside a besieged/masked fortress, not with the garrison. It's unlikely that the specific places listed will be besieged or enemy-occupied, but if they are, the reinforcements must be placed outside. In either case, placement is not movement, so they cannot be Intercepted.

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3. 17.1 It's not clear whether SPs must be differentiated as 'inside' or 'outside' a Fort when the space is not contested, and indeed if they can change such status when not activated.

Both 17.1 and 17.5.1 describe instances when such status can be changed by inactive forces.

Quote:
I used to think that it didn't matter, but, for example:

b) SPs which are INSIDE the Fort cannot oppose an enemy Force entering the space.

Even if masked or besieged, this is not true per 17.5.1.
 
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