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Railways of the World» Forums » General

Subject: Only Glenn Drover as designer? rss

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J C Lawrence
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Railroad Tycoon was published by Eagle Games. Eagle hit financial troubles and was later acquired by FRED. They were not the same company at the time that Eagle published RRT. FRED acquired the RRT rights when they acquired Eagle.
 
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Chaddyboy
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FRED has been asking me to add Martin as a designer for weeks, but the tools to do so have been broken up until today. Remember, the content on BGG is user driven, so whomever added this title to the database omitted a designer, which was then discovered by FRED which promptly shot me an email to add Martin as a designer.
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Chaddyboy
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Just because you posted a message in October doesn't mean anyone with the capability to do anything about it saw it.

Profesor Mora wrote:
Weeks? See the date of the first message: 27 October 2008. Until today, eh? what a coincidence...!

P.S. Now you can "promptly" add his name to [thing=38480][/thing]
 
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J C Lawrence
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Uhh, Martin wasn't the designer of either, no more than he was the designer of any but a very few of the published Age of Steam maps.
 
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Sylvain Martel
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Profesor Mora wrote:
Well, Chad, now you that you can "see", you can add Wallace name to [thing=38480][/thing]


Your guerilla here is getting tiresome. You(we) have no idea if Wallace participated in the design of the map itself. And from the little information known, Rails of Eastern US would be a slightly redesigned version of the original map to try to fix the western edge development problem.
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J C Lawrence
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Profesor Mora wrote:
As the original poster wrote, I assume both will use the system designed by Martin Wallace and Glenn Drover.


In which case should Martin also be credited as the designer for all the Age of Steam expansions?
 
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Michael Jean
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clearclaw wrote:
In which case should Martin also be credited as the designer for all the Age of Steam expansions?


Maybe he didn't design the map itself, but it's his mechanics. So yes, he should be credited on every map...

Edit: Added quote.
 
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J C Lawrence
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atomike wrote:
Maybe he didn't design the map itself, but it's his mechanics. So yes, he should be credited on every map...


Where does the work (and rules changes) added or removed by the publisher's developer come into this? Should they be credited too? Should Bernd be credited as a designer on Louis XIV because the shields were his idea and didn't originate with the game's designer? In the case of Age of Steam maps, some hew close to the original game and make only small changes. Some make sweeping changes to the base game leaving few things aspects untouched and much re-written from scratch. Heck, where does Phil Eklund sit in regard to The Artifact? He designed The Artifact, but it is built entirely around four copies of Michael Wasson and Neal Sofge's Last Frontier (The artifact ships with four copies of the last Fontier) as part of the game.

I posit that there's a slippery slope here that is best served by a narrow definion lest it get out of control.
 
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kevin long
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Its hard to keep up with this particular issue. It seems clearest if the original designer is credited as the designer. Anyone else is a play tester. Evolving the base game does not give credit for originality. Pretty soon you will have some publishers (human nature) adding rules to a game just to add their personal names on the roster.
 
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Joe Wyka
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treece keenes wrote:
Its hard to keep up with this particular issue. It seems clearest if the original designer is credited as the designer. Anyone else is a play tester. Evolving the base game does not give credit for originality. Pretty soon you will have some publishers (human nature) adding rules to a game just to add their personal names on the roster.


Actually, it's a very simple issue. Designers of the game should be credited. Designers of an expansion map should be credited for the expansion.

You need to use the properly credited game to play the properly credited expansion, so who exactly is not getting credit according to you?
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kevin long
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joewyka wrote:
treece keenes wrote:
Its hard to keep up with this particular issue. It seems clearest if the original designer is credited as the designer. Anyone else is a play tester. Evolving the base game does not give credit for originality. Pretty soon you will have some publishers (human nature) adding rules to a game just to add their personal names on the roster.


Actually, it's a very simple issue. Designers of the game should be credited. Designers of an expansion map should be credited for the expansion.

You need to use the properly credited game to play the properly credited expansion, so who exactly is not getting credit according to you?


I was speaking generally and qualified the statement with the first sentence. I don't know enough about this case. Until now it never occured to me that i could make a new map for a game and be credited as a "designer". To me a designer creates a new game and then could make expansions or evolve the game into new versions. In the case that you speak of, does it mean i could take someone elses game, make a new map, and then list my self as the top "designer" by implication or outright?
 
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Joe Wyka
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treece keenes wrote:
joewyka wrote:
treece keenes wrote:
Its hard to keep up with this particular issue. It seems clearest if the original designer is credited as the designer. Anyone else is a play tester. Evolving the base game does not give credit for originality. Pretty soon you will have some publishers (human nature) adding rules to a game just to add their personal names on the roster.


Actually, it's a very simple issue. Designers of the game should be credited. Designers of an expansion map should be credited for the expansion.

You need to use the properly credited game to play the properly credited expansion, so who exactly is not getting credit according to you?


I was speaking generally and qualified the statement with the first sentence. I don't know enough about this case. Until now it never occured to me that i could make a new map for a game and be credited as a "designer". To me a designer creates a new game and then could make expansions or evolve the game into new versions. In the case that you speak of, does it mean i could take someone elses game, make a new map, and then list my self as the top "designer" by implication or outright?


Of the expansion? Of course! Now usually expansions are reprinted with the permission of the publisher/designer, otherwise you'd get in trouble for trademark/copywrite infringement. Some designers say self-produce all the expansions you want, just be sure to let me know you are doing it, while some prefer only "official" expansions from the original publisher and the designer himself. It really varies publisher to publisher, designer to designer, and game to game.
 
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kevin long
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I guess i have an emotional and moral reaction. I look at the cover of "Neues Land" and ideally that is the way for one designer to make a variant of another designers game. I don't think i could be involved in a game that ends up with my name solely when it originated with some one else. Even if the original designer said its okay - I could not do it. I could not considor my self a designer if i could do that.
 
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Ben Foy
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Hmmm, I think people are missing the point. This is a legal issue and the following is based on my limited understanding of the US law (and other issues):

- The base game has to list Martin Wallace as the designer because he designed the RRT system.
- Listing Martin Wallace as a designer increases the sales.
- You don't need to list Martin Wallace as a designer of the expansion (because you know he designed the base system).
- To use Martin Wallace's name on a product, you have to get his permission even if its an expansion.
- You can give him credit for the system in the rulebook without permission.
- If I see a expansion with Martin Wallace's name on it, I will assume he had something to do with that expansion.
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