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Subject: Too unfair if everyone rolled their own die at the start of the winter battle? rss

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The white die you roll is supposed to signify whatever help the king is able to give to all players (lords of estate, whatever) for the winter battle. I'm guessing you could have different amounts of help to each region. Perhaps one player's aid got held up in the mountains?

As for gameplay, any comments on how unfair this would be, if at all? I'm trying to gauge if this would create some more uncertainty for all players while still keeping things on the level.
 
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Richard Diosi
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I'm not sure it would be unfair but I think it would take some of the fun out of knowing (because you looked at the battle card earlier) that you have just enough troops to repel an attack if the king sends at least 2 troops but the other players will not be so lucky.
 
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John Weber
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There are a number of posted variants where you roll your own die but can buy extra die at the cost of one or two +2 markers, and then the attack bonus is based on the differential between the high and low die, maximum possible being +5 (compared to +6 in the rules as printed).

See this thread (one of the first ones to discuss possible variants) for some ideas in this regard:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/238014
 
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Ian Klinck
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I wouldn't say it's unfair, but it definitely adds to the randomness factor. You may see that as a good thing, or a bad thing.

Ian
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William Crispin
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Unless you add a way to buy an extra die I do not see that this adds any additional fun. You do not give the players any additional way to deal with the risk which is now no longer shared.

I think this will make rolling well on the 5 winter rolls start to overwhelm the rest of the game from the players perspective. A couple of good rolls early in the first couple of years could put one player well out in front.
 
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Larry Levy
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Why in the world would you want to add this extra randomness to the game, when it buys you nothing? I'm not saying the current method is without the possibility of unfairness (the roll can come up high when I need help from the King and low when you need it). But now you're making the odds that luck will determine the winner so much higher. Modern game design is all about limiting these kinds of high-luck mechanics; why take such a big step backward?
 
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Chris Linneman
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I'm guessing the OP's reasoning is he wants to feel as if he had some control over the results (even though they are random) by rolling his own die. Cuz you know, some players always roll low

Why not use the expansion variant? Each player gets tokens numbered 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4 at the start of the game and adds one token to their battle strength just before the enemies are revealed each winter. Whichever token is left at the end of the game is worth its value in VPs to its owner. Simple, less random, and gives players more control over the winter battle.
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Again, I'm not looking to "fix" anything perse. Most of this is hypothetical, as someone thought it WAS supposed to be this way, but then we explained to him it was just a single white die for all. I am thinking that if it were this variant, the "most defense" award of 1 pt should NOT include the individual white die rolls for each player. That there would be too luck dependant. I believe that bonus should always go to the one who plans out and gets the most defense.
 
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Matt Slowiak
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Why not use the expansion rules they have previewed. It goes like this:

An alternative (deterministic) way to handle wintry reinforcements: rather than the die, each player gets six tokens numbered 0, 1, 1, 2, 3 and 4 during setup; at the beginning of each Winter you use and discard a token to get that many extra soldiers from the King. The token that you still have after the fifth year is converted into that many points.

I've been playing with this option on the Java version and I love it.
 
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suPUR DUEper
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Larry Levy wrote:
Why in the world would you want to add this extra randomness to the game, when it buys you nothing? I'm not saying the current method is without the possibility of unfairness (the roll can come up high when I need help from the King and low when you need it). But now you're making the odds that luck will determine the winner so much higher. Modern game design is all about limiting these kinds of high-luck mechanics; why take such a big step backward?


Not true...

Adding more variability definitely has consequences (whether or not they are positive depends on your frame of reference).

Using his variant:
Benefits less skilled (i.e. newer players). The more randomness involved, the less the premium on skill (in a single given game any way).
Puts more emphasis and value on the military buildings.
Rewards those who manage risk better than others.
Can increase the variability in the outcome of battles. That is, four people who have essentially made the same prep for battle will probably not all get the same outcome....


I am also not sure I agree about your assertion regarding modern game design. Modern Euro's? Maybe. Certainly not modern wargames, Ameritrash, etc.
 
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Gnipp wrote:
Why not use the expansion rules they have previewed. It goes like this:

An alternative (deterministic) way to handle wintry reinforcements: rather than the die, each player gets six tokens numbered 0, 1, 1, 2, 3 and 4 during setup; at the beginning of each Winter you use and discard a token to get that many extra soldiers from the King. The token that you still have after the fifth year is converted into that many points.

I've been playing with this option on the Java version and I love it.
Some of my groups still would rather roll dice, and among those, they would loathe the solider token module in the exp.
 
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