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Subject: Hi there, I have some nice grenades for you! rss

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João 'Finding a new way to make you WTF today' Marum
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Pictured: Incredible weapons haul of man jailed for putting 750 grenades and Soviet rocket launcher on eBay

Illegal trader: David Sampson has been jailed for five years after selling lethal deactivated weapons on eBay under the name 'millsbomber'

It looks like the prop room for a World War II action film.

Packed tightly on long white shelves are hundreds of grenades, while stashed nearby is a selection of historic guns.

At a metre long, the centrepiece of the deadly collection is a Russian anti-tank missile, used against British forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Police found the £200,000 stockpile after raiding the nondescript Kent home of internet dealer David Sampson, 42.

Despite owning most of the hoard legally, the loner has been jailed for five years for possessing a World War I German Luger pistol, a double-barrelled shotgun and an antique Belgian pistol in contravention of the 1968 Firearms Act.

Sentencing the air-conditioning installer at Maidstone Crown Court, Judge Charles MacDonald said: 'These were slightly unusual, prohibited weapons found in circumstances that were unexplained and you should have known better. The defendant has shown no remorse and has appeared arrogant.'

Sampson legitimately sold deactivated weapons on eBay from his semi-detached home in Sittingbourne.

Worryingly, he had the know-how to reactivate them.

Among his cache were 750 legally-owned deactivated hand grenades and an SAS silenced pistol.

But Sampson's excuses for the presence of the illegally-owned weapons were rejected.

Weapons collection: Sampson's £200,000 arsenal included 750 grenades, a Soviet rocket launcher and guns

He claimed the Luger - found behind a kitchen cabinet during a raid in October 2006 - had belonged to his great-grandfather, a veteran of the Great War.

He told the court he had intended to donate it to a museum.

The Belgian handgun, which was hidden in his garage, was handed to him by a 'friend' who found it in a clear-out.

The Soviet AT3 anti-tank 'Sagger' rocket launcher found in Sampson's home is the same weapon being used against British forces in Iraq and Afghanistan

Sampson claimed he had intended to give the rocket launcher to an Army bomb-disposal school after buying it from a Dutch dealer at a Kent military show two years ago.

The 'Dutchman' refused to give evidence on Sampson's behalf.

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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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As a collector of WWII Military Items I am saddened to think whats going to happen to this fine collection .
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Jon
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The news is "Despite owning most of the hoard legally, the loner has been jailed for five years for possessing a World War I German Luger pistol, a double-barrelled shotgun and an antique Belgian pistol in contravention of the 1968 Firearms Act."

The rest is just sensationalist press.
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M@tthijs
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Over here owning anything that resembles a real firearm (or hand grenade, AFAIK) is illegal, so he would be fined for each one. Individually.
 
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Confusion Under Fire
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Maybe the police were worried that when selling the weapons that he offered a re-arming service to the people he trusted, but it certainly does not look like he was hiding his collection.
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Antonio Chavez
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Koldfoot wrote:
The British government is out of control.

5 years for owning a couple items that are legal in most of the free world.



If they were illegal in the UK, I'd say the British government is pretty much in control.

Believe it or not, not everyone in the world is foaming at the mouth to own guns. Many of us live in countries where guns are illegal... and we like it that way.
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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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Mr.Baggins wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
The British government is out of control.

5 years for owning a couple items that are legal in most of the free world.



If they were illegal in the UK, I'd say the British government is pretty much in control.

Believe it or not, not everyone in the world is foaming at the mouth to own guns. Many of us live in countries where guns are illegal... and we like it that way.


Just because their illegal doesnt mean they arent there.

On a second note alot of Hispanics dont seem to be bothered by our having guns when they move here.
 
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Antonio Chavez
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Hey, I'm not opening a gun control discussion here. I'm just pondering Koldfoot's positing that the British government is "out of control" for applying British law on British soil.
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Jonathan "Spartan Spawn, Sworn, Raised for Warring!"
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Nor was I, I was just saying that Ive not heard of the Hispanic community in our country complain about the gun laws etc.
 
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Get up, get up, get up, get down, fall over.
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Luftwaffe Flak wrote:
Nor was I, I was just saying that Ive not heard of the Hispanic community in our country complain about the gun laws etc.
I haven't heard anybody in our country complain about the gun laws. Never. Not once.

And funnily enough, when somebody is shot dead in this country (which is a whole lot rarer per head of population than in the US), nobody ever says "that would never have happened if guns had been legal".
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Tom Payment
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boltongeordie wrote:
And funnily enough, when somebody is shot dead in this country (which is a whole lot rarer per head of population than in the US), nobody ever says "that would never have happened if guns had been legal".


How can anyone be shot dead there since guns ARE illegal?
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Antonio Chavez
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Luftwaffe Flak wrote:
Nor was I, I was just saying that Ive not heard of the Hispanic community in our country complain about the gun laws etc.


I really, really don't get your point.
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Andy M
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Knife crime is far more prevalent in the UK than gun crime.

Guns are for wankers.
 
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Antigonus Monophthalmus
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Mr.Baggins wrote:
I'm just pondering Koldfoot's positing that the British government is "out of control" for applying British law on British soil.


Legality and control/order are only tangentially linked concepts.
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Confusion Under Fire
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trebuchet wrote:

How can anyone be shot dead there since guns ARE illegal?


Yes guns are illegal but unfortunatly the Banana isn't and how many of us can honestly say we have not imitated a gun with a banana.

 
 
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DK Kemler
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Quote:
lethal deactivated weapons


Err, what? He was going to bludgeon someone to death with a deactivated missile?
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Get up, get up, get up, get down, fall over.
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Koldie,

Nice to see you again, might have guessed you would turn up in this thread.
Koldfoot wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm

4 different excerpts, from a 5 year old source:
Now you see, that might be a UK news source, but the article was written by a US academic, so it doesn't counter my point.

Also, I don't just swallow the numbers hook, line and sinker as you appear to. The article is a masterpiece in selective data choice. For example the supposed convergence of the two murder rates.

2002/3 indeed saw over 1,000 homicides recorded in the UK (the first time that grisly milestone had been reached for an awful long time), but that did include 172 carried out by one man - Dr Harold Shipman - over the preceding 25+ years. That rather distorts the numbers (which were really somewhere over 800 - still a local peak) and yes, does give her the 3.5 times figure for 2002/3 you quote.

The latest rate I can find is for 2005/6 when 766 homicides were recorded, of which 50 were shootings. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs07/hosb0207.pdf. This is 0.011 per 1,000 population. In the following two years the total has been 759 and 784, so pretty level. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs08/hosb0708.pdf

In the US however, the historical rate begins to rise rapidly from .045 per 1,000 in the early sixties to a peak at .102 per 1,000 in 1980. This declined over the next 20 years and has levelled out over the past few years at approx 0.056 per 1,000 http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/totalstab.htm

So in reality, the US Homicide rate is 5 times that of the UK and has been so in the long term figures since the second world war. But sure, why not pick out 3 outlying points and draw a straight line through them to 'prove' your case.

Koldfoot wrote:
But despite, or because, of this, violent crime in America has been plummeting for 10 consecutive years, even as British violence has been rising. By 1995 English rates of violent crime were already far higher than America's for every major violent crime except murder and rape.
True, but this is nothing to do with guns. If you look around the Home Office link above, you will find out that, in the UK, over half of serious violent crime recorded involves [/i]no injury to any person.[/i] But again, feel free to use the fact that we record crime differently to make a case for removing gun control.

Koldfoot wrote:
Should also note that gun deaths in America include suicides in most statistics.
Maybe, but not the homicide statistics quoted above.

Come on, we are all Geeks here. We possess internet search skills and the ability to read critically. One opinion piece on the BBC website based on a statistical house of cards is easy meat. Can't you find anything better?

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Matthew Kloth
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I'm a liberal. I vote democrat even though they are far to the right of me, because I want to move politics to the left. I'm sure I've annoyed plenty of conservatives with my liberalness.

With that said. I think gun restriction is a stupid method of reducing murder and violent crimes. Education fixes the problem, like it fixes most problems. The greatest example of a gun friendly educated population is Switzerland. Of course Switzerland has debates about guns too.

I think the solution is to lower the crime rate by making crime less desirable. Provide potential criminals with help before they get desperate enough to commit crime. This means free easily accessible mental healthcare. This means that no person can be allowed to be financially destitute. This means mental and physical abuse needs to be eradicated.

Guns are not the major cause of violent crime. They are a tool used by a desperate person. There are plenty of guns in the "safe" parts of america. The parts of the country with 100,000 people or less have murder rates the same as European countries. The major cities all have unique murder rates. Some are atrocious, and some are wonderfully low.

I think the problem is with education, economics, and culture. Of course I'm open to new info. I don't care much about gun laws. I'll vote democrat knowing they'll restrict guns. I wouldn't care if they went as far as the UK in restricting guns. I don't use guns, and since violent crime isn't linked to the number of guns it won't effect me in any way. I just get annoyed when people want to create gun control laws in the hopes it will reduce crime. Just like trickle down economics it doesn't work, so stop doing it.
 
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Pee di Moor
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Koldfoot wrote:
The British government is out of control.

5 years for owning a couple items that are legal in most of the free world.




.... ponders the words FREE world ....

.... ponders the words MOST of the free world ....

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The Steak Fairy
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boltongeordie wrote:
I haven't heard anybody in our country complain about the gun laws. Never. Not once.

And funnily enough, when somebody is shot dead in this country (which is a whole lot rarer per head of population than in the US), nobody ever says "that would never have happened if guns had been legal".


If people weren't so busy complaining about the food there, I bet they'd start grousing about the lack of guns. Maybe some day they'll make the connection and realize that if you could shoot the guy in the kitchen at will, the food would improve dramatically.
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Get up, get up, get up, get down, fall over.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Did you read the article? It says murder rates in America are higher than England. Thank you for confirming that information. How much time did you spend surfing the web to confirm it?
Don't try and wriggle out of it Koldie. You know the article tried to say that the murder rates in the US and the UK were converging. They categorically aren't.

Koldfoot wrote:
The story also says the violent crime rate in England is the highest of some odd number of countries surveyed.
I think I answered that too. Did you read my reply?

In any case, you do poorly comparing violent crime in the UK and US and assuming the only difference is guns. Recorded violent crime is also higher in the UK than in many other countries with similar gun laws to our own so that can't be the determining factor. But hey, you cling to the belief that all those deaths are just the price you pay for a few less violent crimes.

I can suggest a good alternative cause though, one that does correlate to violent crime around the world and also within the UK.

Most of our violent crime is linked with alcohol. We have a terrible attitude to alcohol in this country and are also some of the biggest drinkers in the world. We drink more wine per head than the French AND more beer than the Australians. Plus we binge drink, no glass of wine with the meal for us, we save all our drinking up for a couple of nights a week - and that is when A&E get busy.

Somehow, I don't think bringing guns into a British town centre at 2AM is going to help things.
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boltongeordie wrote:

Most of our violent crime is linked with alcohol.


Excuse the pun but this is bang on and is now stretching into drug related crime too
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