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Subject: Monster rating: pick the badass and stop the weaklings! rss

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bestia immonda
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I really enjoy Colossal Arena, and altough I know it's all a matter of choosing carefully when and where placing your bets and choosing your ally carefully, I think that some monsters powers are way better than others:

Ettin: *****
I think that the Ettin is really overpowered: it's ability to play two consecutive cards can serve you in several ways:
1) you'll be able to shut down the round earlier then expected by "closing" two gaps with a single move; in the last rounds this ability really shines, some players won't even get the opportunity to play a single card!!
2) you get rid of two cards and you'll get new cards more often
3) you can "pump up" two of your monsters at the same time, or pump up the Ettin and weaken another! Yay!

Amazon: ****

Card flow is always good, expecially in the first rounds. I won't pick Magus and Amazon at the same time, though, because you won't have "staying power" and influence on other players. Amazon is better than Magus, IMHO

Wyrm: ****

Another badass monster!
The almighty Wyrm can pose a serious threat around the table removing a high card placed on an opponent's monster AND maybe revealing a low card palced beneath the high one!!
OR, remove from one of your other monsters a baaaad card AND maybe revealing a higher one! Two birds with a single stone!

Angel ( I have the italian version, so I dunno the english name sorry ): ****

Useless at the start, he ( she? ) get stronger and stronger round after round. You need to back him ( her ) with high cards the first rounds, so if you don't have a single high or average card at start, it's not a good idea. Otherwise, he can become your best ally, acting like a swiss army knife!

Titan: ***

Average power. Sometimes can be devastating, sometimes meh.

Unicorn: ***

Good power but tricky to use, often neglected to use more direct approach. Can be used to screw your opponents and save your ass, thus is better than the Titan BUT like the Angel is useless the first round!

Magus: ***

Good supporting monster, but weak on his own. He's similar to the Amazon but weaker. Don't get both of them!

Gorgon: **

It's power is unpredictable. He can hit the bullseye or miss, in that case you only get to see an opponent hand....bah!

Troll: **

He has staying power, but cannot interfere with other monsters or alter the game in a significant way. If you are unlucky and you have only low cards, is sorta useless. At least the Unicorn ( similar power ) can at least damage other monsters! Like the Unicorn, his power is useless the first round.

Cyclop: *

Meh. Its power is really good the last rounds, otherwise a good player can use the 4 cards out of 8 remaining and always do something nasty! I don't like him at all.

Colossus: *

I don't like this guy, and he's often hyped by the newbies. You get back a token! How strong is that! Not too much if you think that you need to wait the next turn AND find an empty slot! If you're lucky you'll get to place that extra token the very last turn thus earning ( maybe ) 1 point.... 'nuff said.

Daimon: *

Dunno, maybe it's me and other people disagree, but you'll use his power too early ( like the Colossus, whose beneficial power triggers too late in the game ) when you can't have too many strong card to support your guys, you'll be a prime target to lose the monster due to the fact that you're in a better position and he won't do a single effect on the gameboard so I don't like to use this guy, I think he's the stronger of the lower tier, though.


Whaddya think guys?




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Brad Miller
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I think the Cyclops is hampered by the fact that it is such an annoying power to use, disrupting the flow of the game, that generally, the Cyclops is the first to die...
 
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bestia immonda
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Windopaene wrote:
I think the Cyclops is hampered by the fact that it is such an annoying power to use, disrupting the flow of the game, that generally, the Cyclops is the first to die...


I agree! Even in my games the Cyclop dies easily!
Whaddya think about Ettin? I think he's kinda broken....
 
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John W
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nicktaruffi wrote:

Whaddya think guys?

I think your ratings are highly questionable, if you have Amazon ranked as
and Colossus/Daimon as

Just to confirm the language versions :
In your version, all the Amazon does is draw 3 cards, right? (usually getting you a hand of 10 cards)
And then it likely will cost you your next 1 or 2 draws, right? (since you wont be able to draw again till you are below 8)

And the Colossus still allows you to retrieve a dead bet from anywhere, right?
And the Daimon lets you place a bet on any open slot, right?
(the game is all about the bets)

In my opinion, Colossus/Daimon are so strong (potentially abusive) together that we frequently have not played them in the same arena, since the potential to overwhelm the rest of the game is so high.
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bestia immonda
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reapersaurus wrote:
nicktaruffi wrote:

Whaddya think guys?

I think your ratings are highly questionable, if you have Amazon ranked as
and Colossus/Daimon as

Just to confirm the language versions :
In your version, all the Amazon does is draw 3 cards, right? (usually getting you a hand of 10 cards)
And then it likely will cost you your next 1 or 2 draws, right? (since you wont be able to draw again till you are below 8)

And the Colossus still allows you to retrieve a dead bet from anywhere, right?
And the Daimon lets you place a bet on any open slot, right?
(the game is all about the bets)

In my opinion, Colossus/Daimon are so strong (potentially abusive) together that we frequently have not played them in the same arena, since the potential to overwhelm the rest of the game is so high.


I agree that Colossus+Daimon togheter are pretty strong, but not THAT much! If you're so scared by the combo, I guess that all the other players could decide to kill right away the Colossus; then the Daimon won't pose a serious threat all alone by himself.
By the way, I always play Colossal Arena with a full complement of players: 5 or less often 4.

By the way, is the Ettin overpowered or not?
 
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Latina Nakita
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I have to agree with Reap on this one.

The Ettin is overpowered in a person game, he works better in a 4 or 5 person game, but he is the most powerful usually.

The Angel = Sissypants, I mean Seraphim in English - I agree, one of the best,

I think the Amazon is very week and would not bet on him, but that is just me.

You have to break it up into

a) Hurts the other guy &/or helps you: Wrym, cyclops, titan, gorgon, unicorn, ettin

b) helps your team: Daimon, Colossus , magus, Seraphim, Amazon

c) helps your guy: Troll


I like group a best - if you can screw the other guy, you are always better off in this game. Some guys are more powerful as the game goes on ( seraphim, unicorn ).

I think you have underrated the Magus, he is so big to get rid of crappy cards you don't want, having a good hand is the difference in winning and losing, and that is your best bet for a good hand.




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Orcanthropy
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Just the fact that we (and others) are discussing their strengths and weaknesses so intently indicates how wonderfully balanced this game really is. Judging by posts on this thread and others, there is really a wide range of opinion on favorite and least favorite creatures. I know I personally even waiver from game to game which creature I preferred to utilize most. And any game that can get me to joyfully change my tactics with each play I find thoroughly enjoyable.
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tim Tim TIm TIM TIMMY!!
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Jason - good point, I am all about this game, it is a lot of fun, and most games turn out so different.
 
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Gary Bradley
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Your ratings are way-off. In my experience, the most powerful creature is (by a long way ahead of the others), the Daimon. If a player backs him early, everyone is forced to kill him. You must, or else the backer can hold off all his bets till turn 3 or 4 and put them all on the top rows.

I would rate the Ettin next. And then the Magus! I think you confused the Amazon and the Magus. The Magus is much more powerful. While the Amazon gives you 3 cards right away, you then don't get to draw any new cards in the next couple of turns till you drop below 8 again. On the other hand, the Magus is guarenteed to give you 3 new cards every turn, at the cost of your worse cards, AND you get to draw your usual 1 card to replenish your hand as well! The net effect, if we assume you activate the power every turn, means the Magus = draw 4 cards, discard 3 cards and the Amazon is draw 3 cards. The former is better. However, if you only activate a power now and again (more likely), the Magus is clearly better, as he is STILL draw 4, discard 3. Furthermore with the Magus, you can actively get rid of cards you no longer want to be in the game, such as low power numbers for the monsters you have lots of cash riding on, and high numbers of those the others have lots of cash riding on. Thus preventing other players from stealing them and using them against you. No contest.

I think you under-rated the Cyclops as well, though only in games with smaller numbers of players. Removing 4 cards usually means the target player is completely crippled for his turn. At best he/she will have to past, and at worse he will be forced to play a card that he doesn't want.
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bestia immonda
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Like I said, I always play with the maximum amount of players, or at least 4 in total.
I've never seen a single "bet slot" in the first rows still open in the last rounds, so the Daimon power in turn 3 or 4 is pretty useless! You can't place bets if that slot is already taken, if I recall properly.
 
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Gary Bradley
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So every player in your 4-player game lays a secret bet AND 2 bets on the top row? And then all place their remaining bets on the next row? I find that a bit odd. And it must result in quite a wide spread of point totals at the game end, since many players are losing their top (and second) row bet. In our games, only 1 or 2 points typically split the first and last player, and the Diamon backer usually has at least one space on the top row and a couple on the second to drop his late bets into.

But fair enough; in this case I can see why the Daimon would appear weaker.
 
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bestia immonda
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GaryB wrote:
So every player in your 4-player game lays a secret bet AND 2 bets on the top row? And then all place their remaining bets on the next row? I find that a bit odd. And it must result in quite a wide spread of point totals at the game end, since many players are losing their top (and second) row bet. In our games, only 1 or 2 points typically split the first and last player, and the Diamon backer usually has at least one space on the top row and a couple on the second to drop his late bets into.

But fair enough; in this case I can see why the Daimon would appear weaker.



Yes, all the times the top rows slot are always taken, since:
1) it is worth more points
2) you can use the Monsters power
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Matt Stankey
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I've played this game around 10 times total, and usually with 3 players, but here is my tier list from what I've seen:

High Tier:
Ettin
Wyrm
Magus
Seraphim (Angel)

Mid Tier:
Gorgon
Unicorn
Titan
Daimon

Low Tier:
Amazon
Colossus
Troll

Bottom Tier:
Cyclops

I agree with nick's list for the most part, except that I rate the magus a lot higher than the amazon. He gives you a lot more control over your hand quality than the amazon.

I think the best in the game is close between the ettin and the wyrm, they're both very powerful. The seraphim has potential to be really dangerous, but seems to die off pretty quickly most of the time.

I would refine this list more with more plays, but this is a good approximation from what I've seen in 3-4 player games.
 
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