I am trying to get one of each type of entry level boardgame. What other games are the same system? Which games would be a step up from this in difficulty?
This user is outstanding in mediocre videogaming
Did you visit my www.kobudovenlo.nl? It has game info
Your first question is easy:
I used advanced game search, with
nr of players: 2 and more,
user rating: 6 and up, with at least 30 ratings,
category: marked as wargame
mechanic: hex&counter and chit pull system.
The result is:
Devil's Cauldron: The Battles for Arnhem and Nijmegen, The
Downtown: Air War Over Hanoi, 1965-1972
A Victory Lost
Killing Ground, The
Across 5 Aprils
Great Pacific War, the
Great Battles of the American Civil War: Three Days of Gettysburg (3DOG)
Glory II: Across the Rappahannock
Battles of Waterloo, The
Can't advice you about the step up, but I'm also interesting in good chitpull games (not necss. a step up from AVL)
Jesper Rugård Jensen
You could also try A Victory Denied, on preorder from multiman publishing - I haven't tried it but am thinking abut ordering it...
- Last edited Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:28 pm (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:28 pm
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Actually a very difficult question to answer. You may want to limit your search somewhat. For instance:
1. How large a game do you want (in terms of physical components)
Some of the (war)games mentioned are very large. But large and complex is not necessarily the same thing. Large and the time required to play is more correlated I would say.
2. How complex do you want the game to be
Complexity may mean different things. AVL in not complex when it comes to length of the rules or the amount of exceptions. AVL is complex in the sense that it does not follow tradition in wargaming, making old geeks scratch their heads in trying to follow supply rules etceteras. I would argue that many tactical games have the same problem. The ASL starter kit is not very complex as soon as you have got yourself through the first number of games. However, you have relatively small advantage in having played other wargames in learning ASL. On the other hand many wargames on operational level are similar, and therefore is easier to learn for the more experienced gamer.
3. What do you mean by "type"?
Is that card-driven as opposed to chit-pull, or hex-based as opposed to area-based, or WWII as opposed to Napoleonics, or tactical as opposed to operational? I assume here that it is wargames that is what you are asking for in this case.
I do not consider other hex and counter operational games to be equivalent systems to AVL. The relevant mechanic that makes this game what it is, is "chit-pull activation".
That is, the basic sequence of play in AVL is that the players have some initiative-level for the turn that sets a number of HQ activations they will get, and that determines a number of HQs they can choose and put into a cup. Then they are drawn out one by one, and whichever HQ comes out, its units activate, move and fight.
This is in stark contrast to "I go, you go", symmetric game systems.
There are relatively few modern operational wargames that use the HQ chit-pull system. There are some Napoleonic (or older) games that do, or that use similar "per HQ" activations that alternate unpredictably. (Sometimes with "orders" that force activation of a desired HQ, sometimes with initiative rolls, etc).
Systems like this provide wild and wooly, complex strategy, with relatively "lite" mechanics and "chrome". That combination tends to be a lot more playable than trying to get all the strategic interest out of the special way the 2 Tiger battalion units interact with the 24 anti-tank gun units provided the weather isn't mud and it isn't the German second mechanized movement overrun phase. I exaggerate slightly for purposes of slander.
Chrome complexity makes for rules lawyering and fiddly bits for grogs, hunting for the last column shift through 48 gazillion possible move combinations like chess players. Basic game mechanic strategic complexity tends to reward sound strategic assessments and blatantly run risks coupled to luck. Some grogs hate anything coupled to luck, like chess players. Shows what they know of war (lol).
One man's opinions...
- Last edited Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:05 am (Total Number of Edits: 1)
- Posted Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:04 am