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Subject: easier to teach: puerto rico or agricola? rss

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Rebekkah Kim
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hi, i have both puerto rico and agricola.

which game is easier to teach/play with friends who have played a few gateway games...puerto rico or agricola? should i teach puerto rico first, and then agricola...or vice versa?
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Joel Asmussen
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To me their about the same. As far as components go, Agricola has a lot more "stuff". I would teach Puerto Rico first because there are less things to handle.
 
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John Anderson
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I think I'd say Puerto Rico, although neither should be super hard, especially if you teach the "family" (no card) version of Agricola. Puerto Rico was one of the first games my group played (after Ticket to Ride and Settlers I believe) and we picked up on it pretty fast. Of course learning the best strategies takes quite a bit more time, but just learning the rules and mechanics is pretty straightforward.
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Michael Lessard
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I did the test here, i taught Puerto Rico to my family and everybody catch quickly how to make VP ... Couples of month after, i taught Agricola to them and it's seems to have too much things to think ...

Edit : So, i recommend to teach Puerto Rico before
 
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Joel Asmussen
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jarjar26 wrote:
I did the test here, i taught Puerto Rico to my family and everybody catch quickly how to make VP ... Couples of month after, i taught Agricola to them and it's seems to have too much things to think ... So my family prefer Puerto Rico.




Are you writing like that on purpose?
 
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Jay Sachs
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Quote:
Are you writing like that on purpose?

A quick look shows he's from Quebec, and even without that hint, at the minimum, you might first wonder if English is not his first language, which happens to be the case for a large number of the people here. Have a little sensitivity, patience, and respect, please.
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Kevin Bourrillion
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Quote:
Are you writing like that on purpose?


Wow, someone's really drinkin the hatorade....

Michael, I had NO PROBLEM understanding your post at all and I don't think you should feel bad about posting it, and I am certain that the vast majority of us Geeks feel the same way.

back the question, I think Puerto Rico is MUCH, MUCH better in this regard. There are only 7 different activities that happen in the game (Settler, Builder, Mayor, Craftsman, Trader, Captain, and Prospector) and once you learn each of those you've basically learned 98% of what you need to know. During the game, each time you need to make a choice, you tend to choose between a fairly small number of viable alternatives. Maybe three decent roles to mull over; maybe three decent buildings you can afford; three different reasonable places to stick your leftover colonist, etc. My experience with Agricola is that there's a wide-open universe of possibilities at most times in the game.
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Skip Maloney
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Oddly enough, even though Agricola has a LOT more sheer Stuff to deal with, I think it's easier to teach, especially if you start by showing someone what a farm might look like at the end of a game. You then do something of a standard, 'three things you need to develop" speech - your house, your fields and your pastures (noting that while concentrating on one isn't bad, neglecting any one is). With Puerto Rico, the whole concept of 'role selection' has a tendency to send your average newbie at the Gateway into a tizzy. I think Agricola's objectives are harder to accomplish, but getting the notion of gameplay down is much, much easier.
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Max Jamelli
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I haven't played PR in a while, but recently taught Agricola to my family. My mother in law will play anything, but she needs to play to learn. I want to make sure the rules are out there on the table so everyone knows what they can and can't do. I explained scoring first, then ran through each action on the board, then ran through the turn cards. After that, we played 4 test rounds (so they could experience a harvest) and then we were off.

I think they'd pick up PR quickly as well if I taught it to them.

Now garnering a strategy....that takes a little longer for us.
 
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Joel Asmussen
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I am very,very sorry. I wasn't meaning to be mean at all, but I guess it came across that way now that I look at it. I should have looked at his flag. Will you all please forgive me, especially Michael?
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Michael Lessard
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Please don't worry about that ... I'm very comfortable to get your feedback especially when i make language mistakes, it's important if i want to be better
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ŁṲÎS̈
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I'd say Agricola, the family version specifically is much easier to teach. You just need to give out a enough information to get started, and they use the first game to go through the rules as they come up.

With Puerto Rico, and Catan as well, it seems like you need to get every spelled out before you can get started, even in the first game.

Sure you can just jump into Puerto Rico or Catan with just a few rules knowing you're going to burn a game but it's nowhere near as fun to discover nuances as you progress.

 
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Jonathan Takagi
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Puerto Rico is by far the easier game to teach. Even the family game version of Agricola is much more involved than Puerto Rico. None of Agricola's rules are necessarily all that complicated (though teaching how to sow/harvest is a little tricky), I've just found that there are way more rules to digest.
 
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Daniel Corban
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Agricola is a little more involved in the actual teaching, since it feels like you are explaining a billion actions, but it is easier to actually perform well and have fun in Agricola than Puerto Rico.
 
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JR
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My vote is definitely for PR because of the fact that it has far fewer actions to choose from and each action is very clear in what it does and why you would choose it. Given what you have on your player board, it's pretty easy to surmise the right way to go with your role selection.

In Agricola, there is a multitude of actions from which to choose and many actions are similar with only subtle differences and it can lead to a lot of tougher decisions to evaluate which of these actions now is going to have the best payoff later. I think you need more long-term thinking in Agricola to start out and get going. PR is much easier to get going, but of course it takes a lot of experience to become a strong player. I just think it's an easier teach. Less time spent explaining actions and mechanics and just get to the game!

As someone else suggested, if you teach Agricola to a new-ish player, stay away from the cards the first few times probably.
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McDog
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jarjar26 wrote:
Please don't worry about that ... I'm very comfortable to get your feedback especially when i make language mistakes, it's important if i want to be better



I think your english is fine Michael.


I think Puerto Rico would be much easier to teach. The familty version of Agricola makes it a close call but the real meat of that game is when the cards are added...my vote is PR.
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Evn though I am a lot more familiar with Agricola, I have a much easier time teaching Puerto Rico. Having said that both are very doable as long as you are not dragging anyone to play. I.e. they are all on board.
 
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Al Johnson
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I really am SHOCKED that people think Puerto Rico is easier to teach than Agricola. Puerto Rico has all those buildings that all do different things. Makes it pretty much impossible to do well your first couple games. Agricola, minus the cards (family version) is very easy. Adding the cards does add complexity, but unlike the numerous buildings in Puerto Rico to choose from and understand, I found the cards in Agricola much easier.

Anyway that's my opinion - I still can't believe the responses for Puerto Rico being easier...
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ŁṲÎS̈
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Rastak wrote:
jarjar26 wrote:
Please don't worry about that ... I'm very comfortable to get your feedback especially when i make language mistakes, it's important if i want to be better



I think your english is fine Michael.


I think Puerto Rico would be much easier to teach. The familty version of Agricola makes it a close call but the real meat of that game is when the cards are added...my vote is PR.


I think there's slightly more meat in the family version of Agricola then there is in Puerto Rico.


You can't hope to teach all the actions, major improvements, or even hint at strategy besides "get a little of everything" when teaching Agricola.
That's why I think it's just better to go over the basics and jump in. You get to explain a the game as it goes on.

That said, I do like having all of the information up front in Puerto Rico.
If I had four friends at the table that have all played both and 2 wanted to play Puerto Rico, 2 Agricola, I'd probably give Puerto Rico a tiebraker nod. But just barely.



 
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Железный комиссар
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Puerto Rico is remarkable for how easy it is to teach and for how smoothly it plays. Agricola is a fun game but a bit lumbering by comparison. Also, I've seen Agricola chew up new players and spit them out again and again - still fun, but first-time scores are very low and first-time farms very unimpressive. Puerto Rico is much easier to get in the swing of, even if it's challenging to master. The pressure for efficiency in Puerto Rico never reaches the intensity it does in Agricola. Not even close.

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D Kerr
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Having just taken Agricola for a spin last night I would have to side with the Puerto Rico crowd. Agricola is a tough ask for a newbie. Not because it is an overly complicated game but rather because it is a very restrictive game. Your initial hand sets you on a particular path - miss that path as a newbie and you are screwed. Agricola doesn't seem to have the gameplay that PR does. Largely, I think, because in every PR turn you have to calculate what your role choice will do for you and also how it will benefit or hinder every other player. It is often a fine balancing act. Plus you can redeem yourself despite a few bad decisions. You are usually not out of the game early on. There is a little of that in Agricola but it seems to come down largely to luck. Which cards you are dealt and what your play turn order is. Some cards are incredibly powerful and play balance is questionable. But hey, it is a Euro and only meant for fun. If it rocks your boat go for it. Mine will be sailing for Puerto Rico....goo
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ŁṲÎS̈
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dakerr wrote:
... Your initial hand sets you on a particular path - miss that path as a newbie and you are screwed. ...


Hey, newbies are supposed to play the family game. No initial hand.
 
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Skip Maloney
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The original question wasn't whether one was easier to play or master, but which, in fact, was easier to teach. (Vote early, vote often) I cast a second ballot, still saying Agricola is easier to teach
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Tony Chen
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In Puerto Rico, the choose an action for everybody may be counterintuitive. There's a lot of buildings also. I think Agricola may be easier to teach. Puerto Rico is the better game though.
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Железный комиссар
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SkipM624 wrote:
The original question wasn't whether one was easier to play or master, but which, in fact, was easier to teach. (Vote early, vote often) I cast a second ballot, still saying Agricola is easier to teach


And the answers have been, repeatedly, that Puerto Rico is easier to teach. Some of us have simply clarified that that doesn't make it an easier game.

 
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