robert cabrera
United States
Chesterfield
Virginia
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Paradise sounds awesome, too bad all my relatives and friends arent true believers like those people in Jonestown or something, it will be hard to watch them burn for an eternity, but hey...this is paradise, whip out the Agricola! Jesus wants a rematch.
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robert cabrera
United States
Chesterfield
Virginia
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The one with the trees.
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If Actions Speak Louder Than Words, Then Actions x2 Speak Louder Than Actions
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
One of the Original Twelve
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Oh, you forget about your heathen siblings soon enough. Then it's on to endless joy!
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True Blue Jon
United States
Vancouver
Washington
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You can watch me burn right now...
...bacon in my kitchen!
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South Africa
Cape Town
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badfish20 wrote: Paradise sounds awesome, too bad all my relatives and friends arent true believers like those people in Jonestown or something, it will be hard to watch them burn for an eternity, but hey...this is paradise, whip out the Agricola! Jesus wants a rematch.
According to the Bible they won't burn for eternity, but will be destroyed.
JonJacob wrote: This is exactly what St. Francis of Assisi said in response to the question how can there be a Heaven without a Hell, and I quote:
"How can there be a Heaven where we have to watch our brothers and sisters burning in hell?"
My understanding of the purpose of hell in Judaism makes a lot more sense.
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King of All Simians — Not a Mere Diplomat
United States
Wilmington
Select State
I love you.
I love you.
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Francis may have disavowed it, but he was advancing a gentler ideation of heaven that was far from common. Augustine, Tertullian, Aquinas, and centuries of Christian theology told an exactly opposite tale, where not only was there no ill effect to folks in heaven from watching their heathen loved ones roast, but it was actually part of the joy of salvation!
Thomas Aquinas in the Summa Theologica, Third Part, Supplement, Question XCIV, Of the Relations of the Saints Towards the Damned, First Article, Whether the Blessed in Heaven Will See the Sufferings of the Damned? wrote: In order that the happiness of the saints may be more delightful to them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, they are allowed to see perfectly the sufferings of the damned. So that they may be urged the more to praise God. The saints in heaven know distinctly all that happens to the damned.
Hymnist Isaac Watts (1674-1748) wrote: What bliss will fill the ransomed souls,
When they in glory dwell,
To see the sinner as he rolls,
In quenchless flames of hell.
Where'd they get these wacky ideas? Scripture, of course.
The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance.
- Psalm 58:10
Let the wicked perish at the presence of God. But let the righteous rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.
- Psalm 68:2-3,22-23
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me.
- Isaiah 66:24
A man suffering in "Hades" sees another man luxuriating in "Abraham's bosom," and vice versa.
- Luke, chapter 16
Ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
- Luke 13:28
They shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment shall ascend up forever and ever. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
- Revelation 14:9-11; 18:20, 19:3
So it wasn't just the saved getting their kicks from watching the damned; part of damnation was viewing the saved, too! This prevailing belief was denounced by universalists, and given the moniker, "The Abominable Fancy". I wish I could find it online, but at home I've got a book with a wonderful/creepy ancient illustration of saved souls in an amphitheater whose floor has been removed, so they can watch the torments of the damned.
Be happy to live in a kinder, gentler age, where this stuff isn't the dominant paradigm!
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Stephen Dunne
United States
Austin
TX
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Wow. This God is a great guy.
God: "Psst. Mortal - look down there"
Mortal: "Huh, what the..... HOLY CRAP! What is happening to those poor people?"
God: "Well, there was this whole lack of praise thing."
Mortal: ".......... I love you? And um....Thanks for having me?"
God: "Hmmm......I don't know....Hey isn't that your Mom down there?"
Mortal: (Copious praise and thanks ensues)
God: "Yes, much better."
What a sweetheart.
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lotus dweller
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
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JonJacob wrote:
Very much true. I don't understand how people can make any kind of guesses (and that's all they will ever be) about the existence, quality of life, etc.. in an afterlife. I like the Francis quote but ultimately it is impossible to know anything about these metaphysical questions.
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Being a reconstructed Rumsfeldian I argue that we can possibly have correct knowledge about what happens in an afterlife. Its just that demonstrating what, of our knowledge about a possible after-life, is correct or incorrect is impossible, at this stage.
(However I have a plan to invade Heaven ....)
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