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Subject: eHarmony --> Compatible Partners rss

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Jonathan Takagi
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Can someone with a business/legal background explain to me how an online dating service can be successfully sued for not providing a same-sex option? It seems strange that a private company could be forced to make changes against their will. It seems that in resisting offering this same-sex option they are potentially losing revenue, but that would be their choice.

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William Boykin
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Is this a hypothetical, or is there something that occured?

Link please.

Darilian
 
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Anyone can be sued by anyone for any reason whatsoever. Winning is hard part.
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Jeff
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eHarmony makes you choose what you're looking for. The only options given are for straight males or straight females.
 
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Ralph T
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Many states prohibit denying services to someone based on sexual orientation. So if they run afoul of the state law and do business in that state they could be sued. A company called adoption.com, which was run by Mormons, refused to allow gays to adopt of their website. They were sued in CA. The settlement included them ceasing to do business in CA since they still will not allow gay couples to adopt from them.
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Jonathan Takagi
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I now see that they settled, and that the creation of Compatible Partners was part of the settlement. Is there a legal precedent that would have meant defeat for eHarmony, or are they just compromising out of convenience?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081119/us_nm/us_gay_marriage_eh...;_ylt=ApTagQwuaLxF0xFid9fS3.ms0NUE
 
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Ralph T
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I'm not aware of any cases involving online dating and discrimination.
 
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Jonathan Takagi
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ralpher wrote:
Many states prohibit denying services to someone based on sexual orientation. So if they run afoul of the state law and do business in that state they could be sued. A company called adoption.com, which was run by Mormons, refused to allow gays to adopt of their website. They were sued in CA. The settlement included them ceasing to do business in CA since they still will not allow gay couples to adopt from them.


That makes sense, thanks.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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jtakagi wrote:
ralpher wrote:
Many states prohibit denying services to someone based on sexual orientation. So if they run afoul of the state law and do business in that state they could be sued. A company called adoption.com, which was run by Mormons, refused to allow gays to adopt of their website. They were sued in CA. The settlement included them ceasing to do business in CA since they still will not allow gay couples to adopt from them.


That makes sense, thanks.


No slippery slope here... none at all.... *thwack*
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Jonathan Takagi
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ExcitingJeff wrote:
eHarmony makes you choose what you're looking for. The only options given are for straight males or straight females.


This has been rendered moot by Ralpher's post, but I still have lingering questions. Here on BGG you can't really find too much info on puzzles, because this site focuses mainly on board games. If I was looking for puzzles, wouldn't I just go look at another site?

Or is this not a good parallel? Is the lack of a same sex option discrimination?
 
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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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Lame.

They're a private company. Let them do what they want.
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Paul DeStefano
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jtakagi wrote:
If I was looking for puzzles, wouldn't I just go look at another site?


Depends. Are they gay puzzles?
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Jeff
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jtakagi wrote:
ExcitingJeff wrote:
eHarmony makes you choose what you're looking for. The only options given are for straight males or straight females.


This has been rendered moot by Ralpher's post, but I still have lingering questions. Here on BGG you can't really find too much info on puzzles, because this site focuses mainly on board games. If I was looking for puzzles, wouldn't I just go look at another site?

Or is this not a good parallel? Is the lack of a same sex option discrimination?


I was just answering Darilian's question. eHarmony should be free to do what they want. It's icky, and I certainly wouldn't want to date anyone who's OK with that, but I'm not at all advocating that they should have to accept anyone.

EDIT: I believe I misunderstood his original question, anyway.
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ExcitingJeff wrote:
eHarmony makes you choose what you're looking for. The only options given are for straight males or straight females.


What if you're a gay male looking for a straight man? WINNER!
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Ralph T
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Eharmony is different than a regular dating website in that it offers matchmaking services as opposed to simply ads.

Thus it is providing a different level of service to gays as to straights.

It might be a better case for them if they only offered ads, where they are saying they don't have an obligation to create a category
 
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Jonathan Takagi
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ralpher wrote:
Eharmony is different than a regular dating website in that it offers matchmaking services as opposed to simply ads.


I think that this was part of their defense - that they had done a lot of research on relationships and had come up with this scientific model that supposedly predicts compatibility. And they did not pursue offering a same-sex option because they had not done the same research and could not provide as good of a product.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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Let's talk about prop 8 again with this new context, shall we? I would like for all the people who couldn't comprehend how allowing gays to redefine marriage would lead to churches being forced to marry gays against their wishes/beliefs.

This is a vicious lie, supposedly. Something that is so completely made up that it shows the true colors of those friggen fracken BIGOTS to exaggerate and cause a false hysteria of fear. I mean... after all... this is the best argument they can come up with? That they will eventually be forced to marry gays in their churches? The nerve!

Not two weeks later, this happens.

Here we have e-harmony, a private online dating service, being sued to allow an option for gender preference. They either lost the case, or could not afford to spend sufficient money to defend the case and capitulated. Either way, their hand is clearly being forced or there would have been no case in the first place.

Where does it stop? Seems logical to me to believe that this sort of thing will continue. Not so far fetched now that you see an actual example of how this would work.

Edit: Was new Jersey, not CA. Fixed.
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Ralph T
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Actually there's a religious organization and nonprofit corp exception under the CA Unruh law, so whether Prop 8 passed or not, gays would not be able to force churches to marry them, or force private schools to teach about gay marriage. The Boys Scouts for example, are not covered by the CA anti-discrimination laws.
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Eric "Shippy McShipperson" Mowrer
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ralpher wrote:
Actually there's a religious organization and nonprofit corp exception under the CA Unruh law, so whether Prop 8 passed or not, gays would not be able to force churches to marry them, or force private schools to teach about gay marriage. The Boys Scouts for example, are not covered by the CA anti-discrimination laws.


Right, until those laws get struck down as unconstitutional as did the marriage laws/policies.
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William Boykin
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ejmowrer wrote:
Let's talk about prop 8 again with this new context, shall we? I would like for all the people who couldn't comprehend how allowing gays to redefine marriage would lead to churches being forced to marry gays against their wishes/beliefs.

This is a vicious lie, supposedly. Something that is so completely made up that it shows the true colors of those friggen fracken BIGOTS to exaggerate and cause a false hysteria of fear. I mean... after all... this is the best argument they can come up with? That they will eventually be forced to marry gays in their churches? The nerve!

Not two weeks later, this happens.

Here we have e-harmony, a private online dating service, being sued to allow an option for gender preference. They either lost the case, or could not afford to spend sufficient money to defend the case and capitulated. Either way, their hand is clearly being forced or there would have been no case in the first place.

Where does it stop? Seems logical to me to believe that this sort of thing will continue. Not so far fetched now that you see an actual example of how this would work.

Edit: Was new Jersey, not CA. Fixed.


Ah, but Comrade! You are on the wrong side of Progress! All of the regressive Churches will be washed aside into the dustbin of history as the workers progress to the ultimate Socialist victory as ordained by the Progressive forces of History.....!

(OOPS!) Wrong forces of progress, sorry. My apologies- I can NEVER keep my progressivisms straight......

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
My apologies- I can NEVER keep my progressivisms straight......


This explains so much!
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William Boykin
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travistdale wrote:
Darilian wrote:
My apologies- I can NEVER keep my progressivisms straight......


This explains so much!


*lol*
Ok, you get a cookie.

Darilian
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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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Darilian wrote:
ejmowrer wrote:
Let's talk about prop 8 again with this new context, shall we? I would like for all the people who couldn't comprehend how allowing gays to redefine marriage would lead to churches being forced to marry gays against their wishes/beliefs.

This is a vicious lie, supposedly. Something that is so completely made up that it shows the true colors of those friggen fracken BIGOTS to exaggerate and cause a false hysteria of fear. I mean... after all... this is the best argument they can come up with? That they will eventually be forced to marry gays in their churches? The nerve!

Not two weeks later, this happens.

Here we have e-harmony, a private online dating service, being sued to allow an option for gender preference. They either lost the case, or could not afford to spend sufficient money to defend the case and capitulated. Either way, their hand is clearly being forced or there would have been no case in the first place.

Where does it stop? Seems logical to me to believe that this sort of thing will continue. Not so far fetched now that you see an actual example of how this would work.

Edit: Was new Jersey, not CA. Fixed.


Ah, but Comrade! You are on the wrong side of Progress! All of the regressive Churches will be washed aside into the dustbin of history as the workers progress to the ultimate Socialist victory as ordained by the Progressive forces of History.....!

(OOPS!) Wrong forces of progress, sorry. My apologies- I can NEVER keep my progressivisms straight......


Hey, as a vocal supporter of gay marriage here on RSP, leave me out of this!

Just because I think the government should provide the same services to all citizens doesn't mean that I think private businesses and individuals shouldn't also be able to do whatever the hell they want.
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Isaac Citrom
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jtakagi wrote:
ralpher wrote:
Eharmony is different than a regular dating website in that it offers matchmaking services as opposed to simply ads.


I think that this was part of their defense - that they had done a lot of research on relationships and had come up with this scientific model that supposedly predicts compatibility. And they did not pursue offering a same-sex option because they had not done the same research and could not provide as good of a product.


Bingo! This is the defensible position.

The whole point of anti-discrimination legislation and rights as such is that they cannot be circumvented by private institutions. That is why you cannot have a "no Blacks" club anymore.

Life is full of discrimination everywhere. Universities discriminate and have specific criteria that must be met before you can attend. This is normal and there is nothing wrong with it.

Specific types of discrimination, however, have been outlawed. That is, specific criterion have been legislated as illegal. For example, in Canada, and it is very similar in other Western democracies, the criterion upon which you cannot discriminate are race, religion, sex, and age. Quebec has its own charter of rights and freedoms and adds pregnancy, sexual orientation, civil status, political convictions, language, social condition, handicap, and sexual orientation.

So, for example, you cannot refuse to rent an apartment to a Black person even though you own the building and it is a private business. Private business must also comply with the charters of rights and freedoms. These tenets are explicitly engineered to be pervasive throughout all aspects of society.
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Isaac Citrom
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le_cygne wrote:

Hey, as a vocal supporter of gay marriage here on RSP, leave me out of this!

Just because I think the government should provide the same services to all citizens doesn't mean that I think private businesses and individuals shouldn't also be able to do whatever the hell they want.


This reminds me of the 1935 Peace Ballot in the U.K.:

1. Should Great Britain remain a Member of the League of Nations?
2. Are you in favour of all-round reduction of armaments by international agreement?
3. Are you in favour of an all-round abolition of national military and naval aircraft by international agreement?
4. Should the manufacture and sale of armaments for private profit be prohibited by international agreement?.
5. Do you consider that, if a nation insists on attacking another, the other nations should combine to compel it to stop—
(a) by economic and non-military measures
(b) if necessary, military measures


The referendum's qustions passed resoundingly along Liberal (Left) lines.

Although millions agreed with statement 5, those same millions did not think of the obvious problem of taking military measures against an illegally armed nation, when everyone else is already disarmed.

Likewise, marriage should be kept out of government's hands, but should still enforce rights relating to it (sans any codification), but no for individuals or private businesses, only for government applications, which the government should not be involved in.

This is one of my mainstay points about the Liberal Left, such that they have no moral centre that guides their thinking. Equivalent points contradict each other depending on the particular issue du jour. Yes, the Right has its own colossal cockups but tends much more so to recognize them as such, even if only after the fact.
.

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