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Subject: The curmedgeon in me speaks out... at length perhaps. rss

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Mike Bourgeois
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Is it just me thinking here or have any of you noticed what assholes a good deal of our worlds teens and young adults are turning out to be.

I'm going to pull that old chestnut that said, "In my day youth was more respecting of age." I know it's a load of tripe but I also know that the kids I run into these days coming from all walks of life are turning into total wastes of breath.

Two young women chattering between themselves with the fluid profanities spilling out of their lips. Older lady and her companion get on the bus and walk towards the midsection where these two are nattering. I'm already out of my seat or I'd have offered it but these two are oblivious to two ladies who really need a place to sit down. I pipe up, "Could you maybe move so these ladies could sit down?" The closer of the two looks at me and says, "Why? I paid my fare... why should I give up my seat to some old hag." She rolls her eyes and then they're back to their important 'who screwed who last night'.

Walking down the sidewalk with a full load of gear... we're moving it from one storage area to another. Group of kids about 15 or so in number are sprawled out over the sidewalk in all possible states. We ask them to move and I might as well have been talking to the wall... just this blank stare. Traffic is heavy enough that walking on the street for the 10 or so feet to get around them is tricky. Our luck that a cop walks up and tells them to move their asses. He gets a sneer from one pierced thug who hefts up his pants from his kneecaps to just under his nose and they all mosey about 20 feet down the road. The cop shrugs at us and moves on his beat.

Lastly... local grocery store... young fella wearing the shirt and tie and dress slacks... helpful and knowledgable about his position and about the store. Good worker so we've noticed. End of shift he gets into his civvie gear and turns into a totally different animal. I'm hoping that it was just a bad day for him because he was so rude and disrespectful of us asking for help with the doors that it would have been firing material if he'd been on the floor.


So, what happened to common courtesy, concern for those around you and the desire to just be nice. I'm not saying that adults are perfect and kids are dross but I'm always wondering now if it's a disease that effects kids at a certain age and no one is free from it.

thanks, Rant off.
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Steven Heinrich
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When the "we know better than anyone else" police decided that spankings equaled abuse.
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Matthew Kloth
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I'll chime in with a bit of my youthful viewpoint.

I was and am rarely rewarded for "doing the right thing".

If you want a company to side with you on a disagreement you do not act reasonable. What you do is act like a complete pain in the ass, so they give you what you want.

Cops give you shit no matter what you do if you're young or don't look how they want you to. I look like a typical nerdy average guy (not some "thug"). I've been talked down to for just sitting in a park. I've been pulled over 6 times in one week for absolutely nothing other than looking young and driving a red car (no tickets because I don't speed and in fact have a perfect driving record).

Employees who bend over backwards get reamed in the ass. You'll be overworked and underpaid. I learned this lesson after my first job canned me for making my job obsolete from efficiency. The next job I wedged myself into an essential position by bottle necking everything to me. It resulted in lots of promotions and doubling my wage in 3 years.

Swear words are a valid form of expression. I don't like some speech patterns, but I don't look down on people for them. I've gotten better about using profanity. Now I know when to use it for greater effect.

You story is full of demanding things from people because they are young. You told people to get out of there seats, to move out of your way, and to open the door for you. This is not there job. They don't benefit from helping you. I've helped old ladies. They'll milk it for everything they can. "Thanks for holding the door... could you help me take this to my car".

Young people are also pressured into doing more. Heaps of school, work, pressure, and responsibilities. Excuse me for not wasting some of my precious free time helping some random stranger who demands things of me.
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Matthew Kloth
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heinrichsteven wrote:
When the "we know better than anyone else" police decided that spankings equaled abuse.

Definition of abuse:
"Abuse refers to the use or treatment of something (a person, item, substance, concept, or vocabulary) that is harmful. It can be classed by the target of abuse or the type of abuse."

Hitting a person of any age results in harm. There are no long term benefits from spanking.

It's not the greatest sin in the world, and I don't think custody should be taken away just for smacking a brat in the ass. I do think it's a poor parenting technique.
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Mike Bourgeois
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Quote:
You story is full of demanding things from people because they are young. You told people to get out of there seats, to move out of your way, and to open the door for you. This is not there job. They don't benefit from helping you. I've helped old ladies. They'll milk it for everything they can. "Thanks for holding the door... could you help me take this to my car".


Matthew, you know what my story was full of... kids who didn't give a good god damn about anything but themself. You can say that I was demanding things of them and you could be right... but what I 'demanded' was simple courtesy... give way to a couple of ladies who aren't steady on their feet, move out of the way so that normal passage can continue and please give me a hand getting out of the door. I didn't ask them to give a kidney... I asked them to give a damn. A lot of kids don't these days and I really doubt it's because the stress in their lives is overwhelming. I was a kid and I didn't act like them.

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Young people are also pressured into doing more. Heaps of school, work, pressure, and responsibilities. Excuse me for not wasting some of my precious free time helping some random stranger who demands things of me.


This is just precious... they're asked to do what's expected of them. If all they want to do is sit on their humps then go ahead... but don't blame anyone else but themselves when life hands them a bag of steaming dog turds rather than the brass ring they expected. What grinds the most here is that if the shoe was on the other foot and you or one of your peers came to me and asked for help... I'd be such a bastard if I didn't... right? There wouldn't be a 'cool... I see where you're coming from... your precious free time is more important than me... I understand'. There'd be muttered drivel coming out of their lips because life handed them what they had coming. And you know the sadder thing... I'd help out because it's what you do for another human being... I'm not asking for thanks for helping... I'd do it because it's what you do.

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Swear words are a valid form of expression. I don't like some speech patterns, but I don't look down on people for them. I've gotten better about using profanity. Now I know when to use it for greater effect.


Vulgarity is used by youth for shock effect... and it fails miserably. The only thing it does is make others look at them and think what pathetic wanna bes they are... too stupid to use the Queens own english to greatest effect.

Matthew, I don't know if you're on par with the meat puppets I've talked about in my rant... if you are then what can I say... hopefully you'll grow out of it. If you're not like that then don't defend your peers failings... there isn't an excuse for being a jerk. We owe it to every person whether they be a baby, youth or adult to give our best. We owe it to ourselves to not fall into the chasm of just not giving a damn.
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Matthew Kloth
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mbourgeois wrote:
Matthew, you know what my story was full of... kids who didn't give a good god damn about anything but themself. You can say that I was demanding things of them and you could be right... but what I 'demanded' was simple courtesy... give way to a couple of ladies who aren't steady on their feet, move out of the way so that normal passage can continue and please give me a hand getting out of the door. I didn't ask them to give a kidney... I asked them to give a damn. A lot of kids don't these days and I really doubt it's because the stress in their lives is overwhelming. I was a kid and I didn't act like them.

Everyone is selfish. You're selfish because you demand a social norm from others. If the old ladies deserve something then that's the governments problem. Give them preferential handicap bus seats for all I care. The kids plopped out in the sidewalk... where else should they go? Was there a park on that block? They obviously wanted to sit around with there friends practicing their social skills. When I'm done with work, I'm done. I'm not doing +.1 hours more work because you want help with the door. If I didn't get scolded for showing up 5 minutes late I might be a different person, but the world wants to eat up my free time in small chunks of my time. You can't have my 5 minutes.
Quote:
This is just precious... they're asked to do what's expected of them. If all they want to do is sit on their humps then go ahead... but don't blame anyone else but themselves when life hands them a bag of steaming dog turds rather than the brass ring they expected. What grinds the most here is that if the shoe was on the other foot and you or one of your peers came to me and asked for help... I'd be such a bastard if I didn't... right? There wouldn't be a 'cool... I see where you're coming from... your precious free time is more important than me... I understand'. There'd be muttered drivel coming out of their lips because life handed them what they had coming. And you know the sadder thing... I'd help out because it's what you do for another human being... I'm not asking for thanks for helping... I'd do it because it's what you do.

I've given examples of how acting like a douche is actually in your best interest. I don't get any help. I don't ask for help. I demand what I think is owed to me. I fight for what I want and what is best.

I don't need somebody to walk me across the street. I need somebody to run my school aid form correctly so I don't starve to death.

How often as a "pierced thug" asked something of you?

Go help yourself. I can lend you the bootstraps I pulled myself up with.

Quote:
Vulgarity is used by youth for shock effect... and it fails miserably. The only thing it does is make others look at them and think what pathetic wanna bes they are... too stupid to use the Queens own english to greatest effect.

It sure shocked you. Go teach them a lesson if you're up to it.
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Matthew, I don't know if you're on par with the meat puppets I've talked about in my rant... if you are then what can I say... hopefully you'll grow out of it. If you're not like that then don't defend your peers failings... there isn't an excuse for being a jerk. We owe it to every person whether they be a baby, youth or adult to give our best. We owe it to ourselves to not fall into the chasm of just not giving a damn.

I'm likely not on par with them. I'd probably hate to be around them. I have the luxury of being well educated and smart. I think there are valid reasons/exuces for why they are the way they are. I've even listed a few reasons for being a jerk.

I don't owe you, babies, or old ladies shit. Giving a damn is definitely a good thing, and any intelligent selfish person realizes that all boats rise with a high tide. I will always be for giving a hand to those who need it.

I would personally give the old ladies my seat. I'd move out of the way for others to go through. I'd hold a door open for somebody who looked like they needed it. Or I might be having a bad day and tell them to go fuck themselves.

People do things for a reason. Unless you think the youth in your area are just genetically mutated to be horrible people there has to be a societal cause for it.
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Brian Casey
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There is.....I just....you.....How... angry

Gah!
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steve mizuno
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You think teens and youth are the problem?

I'll agree... there are some who deserve to spend another 18 years learning what they didn't get the first time around.

But I'll say this...

I think that feelings of entitlement are found in every age group, and frequently, moreso in, perhaps, my generation.

Entitlement comes from having people cater to you, at whatever age, and having it when you are young (a child), makes it more likely when you become an adult.

I find it more related to group think... and privilege... than age.

Some of the biggest idiots / jerks / a-holes that I have ever dealt with have been my age or older (Close to 50).

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Mike Bourgeois
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soltan gris wrote:
You think teens and youth are the problem?

I'll agree... there are some who deserve to spend another 18 years learning what they didn't get the first time around.

But I'll say this...

I think that feelings of entitlement are found in every age group, and frequently, moreso in, perhaps, my generation.

Entitlement comes from having people cater to you, at whatever age, and having it when you are young (a child), makes it more likely when you become an adult.

I find it more related to group think... and privilege... than age.

Some of the biggest idiots / jerks / a-holes that I have ever dealt with have been my age or older (Close to 50).



So does that mean because I cater to my daughter... she'll become an less than pleasant person to be around? I think she'll learn from experience that it pays to be good to those around you without thought of reward. Or perhaps the reward garnered is people who are happy to see you and treat you with a modicum of human decency. (not everyone but I think like begets like when you come down to it.)

I hope that if I ever slip into the gloom of 'who gives a crap' that someone will take me aside and remind me that it doesn't hurt to care a little. At least I'm pretty sure my wife will smack me on the back of the head if I get to be a dick.
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MusedFable wrote:
mbourgeois wrote:
Matthew, you know what my story was full of... kids who didn't give a good god damn about anything but themself. You can say that I was demanding things of them and you could be right... but what I 'demanded' was simple courtesy... give way to a couple of ladies who aren't steady on their feet, move out of the way so that normal passage can continue and please give me a hand getting out of the door. I didn't ask them to give a kidney... I asked them to give a damn. A lot of kids don't these days and I really doubt it's because the stress in their lives is overwhelming. I was a kid and I didn't act like them.

Everyone is selfish. You're selfish because you demand a social norm from others. If the old ladies deserve something then that's the governments problem. Give them preferential handicap bus seats for all I care. The kids plopped out in the sidewalk... where else should they go? Was there a park on that block? They obviously wanted to sit around with there friends practicing their social skills. When I'm done with work, I'm done. I'm not doing +.1 hours more work because you want help with the door. If I didn't get scolded for showing up 5 minutes late I might be a different person, but the world wants to eat up my free time in small chunks of my time. You can't have my 5 minutes.
Quote:
This is just precious... they're asked to do what's expected of them. If all they want to do is sit on their humps then go ahead... but don't blame anyone else but themselves when life hands them a bag of steaming dog turds rather than the brass ring they expected. What grinds the most here is that if the shoe was on the other foot and you or one of your peers came to me and asked for help... I'd be such a bastard if I didn't... right? There wouldn't be a 'cool... I see where you're coming from... your precious free time is more important than me... I understand'. There'd be muttered drivel coming out of their lips because life handed them what they had coming. And you know the sadder thing... I'd help out because it's what you do for another human being... I'm not asking for thanks for helping... I'd do it because it's what you do.

I've given examples of how acting like a douche is actually in your best interest. I don't get any help. I don't ask for help. I demand what I think is owed to me. I fight for what I want and what is best.

I don't need somebody to walk me across the street. I need somebody to run my school aid form correctly so I don't starve to death.

How often as a "pierced thug" asked something of you?

Go help yourself. I can lend you the bootstraps I pulled myself up with.

Quote:
Vulgarity is used by youth for shock effect... and it fails miserably. The only thing it does is make others look at them and think what pathetic wanna bes they are... too stupid to use the Queens own english to greatest effect.

It sure shocked you. Go teach them a lesson if you're up to it.
Quote:
Matthew, I don't know if you're on par with the meat puppets I've talked about in my rant... if you are then what can I say... hopefully you'll grow out of it. If you're not like that then don't defend your peers failings... there isn't an excuse for being a jerk. We owe it to every person whether they be a baby, youth or adult to give our best. We owe it to ourselves to not fall into the chasm of just not giving a damn.

I'm likely not on par with them. I'd probably hate to be around them. I have the luxury of being well educated and smart. I think there are valid reasons/exuces for why they are the way they are. I've even listed a few reasons for being a jerk.

I don't owe you, babies, or old ladies shit. Giving a damn is definitely a good thing, and any intelligent selfish person realizes that all boats rise with a high tide. I will always be for giving a hand to those who need it.

I would personally give the old ladies my seat. I'd move out of the way for others to go through. I'd hold a door open for somebody who looked like they needed it. Or I might be having a bad day and tell them to go fuck themselves.

People do things for a reason. Unless you think the youth in your area are just genetically mutated to be horrible people there has to be a societal cause for it.


Wow, Matt, this is pretty much the most narcissisitic response I've read in quite a while. I'd hate to imagine how much worse this world would be if everyone practiced this approach of being utterly self-centered and not moving to help anyone unless it was convenient or easy. I'm not saying I'm perfect, or have always done the right thing either, but at least I strive to do what's right (as defined by my belief system, handed down to me by my parents and my religion). I'll fall short often, but in trying, I will succeed at times and contribute to some improvement in the general human condition.
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True Blue Jon
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Sorry to hear you ran into so many jerks lately. I hope you run into some nice people soon!
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Wait a minute! This is happening in Canada?! I thought all Canadians are polite...
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H'mmm, most young people I run into seem pretty nice. And I know a couple true assholes who are older than me.


All kinds of people come in all ages.
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steve mizuno
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So does that mean because I cater to my daughter... she'll become an less than pleasant person to be around?


I think it depends on how much you cater to her, and how you do it. Its one thing to treat her like your daughter, and entirely another to indulge her for no reason at all, or to get her to quit whining in a public place, or to end up associating a "reward" of some sort with truly horrendous behavior.

One of the more irritating groups I used to find myself around were 35-45+ yuppies / dinks, and I seemed to run into them the most at the ballpark (used to have season tickets), on Friday and Saturday nights. Spent the whole game drinking and carrying on unnecessarily loud and egotistical conversations, while the entire section around them was trying to enjoy the game.

These were probably the same idiots who nearly hit me driving into the parking lot, cutting me off by turning into the lane at the last moment to avoid waiting in line like the rest of the well mannered people who planned ahead for the turn...
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Xander Fulton
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Ummm...you get the society you built?

I guess (and I'm not THAT young - 30, now) I'm used to seeing the dichotomy in the generations. My 'parents' generation (50+) spent no small amount of time teaching us that entertainment was a waste of time. Only thing that mattered was the work you did. The further ahead you got, the better off you were - not just financially, but as a person. Everyone doing their best to get ahead was better for all of society.

Only thing is, of course, teaching that kind of cut-throat competition requires a loss of compassion for fellow men. After all, 'looking after the wellfare of others' isn't what gets society ahead - hell, that's borderline socialism. Nonono, far better for every man to fend for himself. If you can't take what you need, you clearly didn't deserve it. Might makes right, and the strongest rise to the top and all that.

Now, I didn't jump on that bandwagon. Sadly, I still care about my fellow man a lot, give up my seats to my elders, donate to charities, and tend to vote socialist whenever I can. And hey, I like boardgames and entertainment! But my libertarian co-workers...no...they are pretty much exactly as you describe.
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Mark Casiglio
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mbourgeois wrote:
Is it just me thinking here or have any of you noticed what assholes a good deal of our worlds teens and young adults are turning out to be.


no, in fact I'd say that my experience with the younger generation is actually much more positive and respectful than when I was a teen. Of course I can only speak from my own experience with my sons and their friends. But frankly I think kids today are pretty great.
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I could say so much. Those you met are really rude and unkind and very selfish. As Matthew I think tried to point out is that these people probably never had anybody model pro-social skills for them and you can look at the behavior of so many CEOs and Corporate executives to see that many people of my generation (I'm 40) have been extremely selfish, greedy and uncaring of others - and we're starting to see the global effect that is having.

However, Matthew, not all people are selfish. I've met some very unselfish people in my time, some willing to give their lives for other people. I wish I could say I was so unselfish, I can't, but each day I try to be less selfish. We know the world is an unfair place. What I sometimes tell the children I teach is that though the world is unfair, you can be fair and that makes a difference in the world.

[BTW, in many cities, certain seats are set aside on public transportation for those with disabilities or who are over a certain age and other passengers must vacate for them, by law and violation is subject to stiff fines and possibly jail time. Some bus drivers have called police to enforce it. Sometimes buses actually have undercover police on them as well.]
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heinrichsteven wrote:
When the "we know better than anyone else" police decided that spankings equaled abuse.


I feel this is very true.

Mike if I may add my own youthful insight to this, I have parents who are older then most, actually they are old enough to be Grandparents and I am just turning 20 at the end of this month (they didnt have me till they were 41, not from lack of trying its just when it happened for them).

Anyways, I credit them with who I am today, they raised me to say Yes Sir, No Sir, etc. Hold the door open, give up my seat for a lady or older gent, respect your elders, how to present myself at a job interview and present my self socially as well.

I will say this though, I curse from time to time, but for myself its not for a shock effect. I honestly couldnt describe to you why it comes out but it does and well I guess such is life heh?

I am also saddened at how it looks the world is heading these days but what can you do? Personally it means more job security for those of us who do a good job, work hard, accept responsibility for your mistakes and rectify them etc. Every job interview Ive been to, Ive been complimented on my dress the managers saying and myself noticing the other applicants coming in, wearing jeans and a T-shirt. I dont say this to toot my own horn but to say my parents because of the way I was raised (spankings and all) have made me the man I am today.

@Matthew, it is your personal opinion and I wont argue with you but spankings do help trust me. When I was growing up, I knew not to do something because I would get a spanking. Thats what punishment is, something not enjoyable so you dont do it again. My parents never abused me and never used their hands and it was always on the butt, never anywhere else. As I said both are our personal opinions Im just telling you mine.

Were not all like those teens you ran into Mike, please dont give up hope just yet.
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Mike Bourgeois
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I'm sorry to all if I give the impression that Victoria is filled with hoodlums and thugs in the teen to young adult age range. There are many good people out there and I deal with some of them on a daily basis. I guess the ones who are polite and helpful fall by the wayside when compaired to those who are less than charming.

I'm glad there are still folks out there who take pride in a good days work and don't mind going the step beyond even though their workday ended 5 minutes ago. I'm also very encouraged to know that there are those who react in a helpful manner even though those they serve treat them in a discourteous way. I guess as much as I ranted on teens and young adults I should rail more at those who came before and couldn't be bothered to show others how it should be done. In either instance I guess you do what you do because it's how you are... everyone has bad days... we just can't let that fact run our lives.

Thanks for everyones response... the emotion felt when first writing the rant is gone... I accept that no one should have to meet up to my expectations. It's not fair to them or right of me.
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Michael Barlow
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I was on the bus this morning and, my what a foul mood I was in; I can't do cider before 10am anymore, I guess. And I noticed all the sorts of types of people on the long ride from Royal Oak to town and at one point some kid in a leather jacket and sneakers sits next to me and he's got green DVD or game cases with him and suddenly I get this thought into my head:

"Is this what ageing is? Choosing your generation, then being left behind? Am I willingly anachronistic..."

That's what's happening I think. We're not with it anymore. We're not part of the new courtesy, which to our minds isn't courtesy at all. Any more than me slowly typing this out and trying to get the right punctuation in the right spots. That's not what kids do anymore.
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Some people are jerks, others aren't.

I work with a fair number of 'kids' they come and they go. I find that if I treat them with respect they do the same for me. But I had to earn their respect. Which is different than respect being the default.

You can't change everyone just the people around you.
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MusedFable wrote:


I don't need somebody to walk me across the street.

But someday you will.
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The Steak Fairy
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Games? People still play games??
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Specious arguments are not proof of trollish intent.
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I don't know why any kid should show any respect to anybody who misspells "curmudgeon." I know I don't!! Just carry a big dictionary, and if kids don't behave the way you want them to on a bus, smash them upside their heads with it. As you do this, be sure to invent a neat catchphrase such as, "Define retribution!"
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Matthew Kloth
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cooler king wrote:
MusedFable wrote:


I don't need somebody to walk me across the street.

But someday you will.

No, I won't.
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Mike Bourgeois
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MisterCranky wrote:
I don't know why any kid should show any respect to anybody who misspells "curmudgeon." I know I don't!! Just carry a big dictionary, and if kids don't behave the way you want them to on a bus, smash them upside their heads with it. As you do this, be sure to invent a neat catchphrase such as, "Define retribution!"


Mister Cranky, bless you. If anyone was going to show me the error of my spelling ways... I'd want it to be you.

thank you so very much
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