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Race for the Galaxy: The Gathering Storm» Forums » Variants

Subject: Batteries not Included variant rss

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Dave J McWeasely
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This variant addresses Alien Toy Shop cheese, and requires using two of the blanks - preferably both alien windfall blanks, but since that requires two copies, I'm going to use the alien windfall and generic blank.

Remove Alien Toy Shop and Lost Alien Library. Replace them with this modified versions:

Alien Toy Shop (batteries not included)
Cost [BGCOLOR=#FFFF00]([BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF]3[/COLOR])[/COLOR], 1vp 2vp Alien Windfall
No consume power!




Lost Alien Library (with comfy chairs)
Cost [BGCOLOR=#FFFF00]([BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF]6[/COLOR])[/COLOR], 5vp 4vp Alien Windfall
IV: ([BGCOLOR=#FFFF00][][/COLOR]) => 2vp
Consume a good from this world for 2vp, in other words the power of Alien Toy Shop.
 
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El-ad David Amir
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Can you please comment on your playtesting experience with this variant?
 
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I've had a chance to experiment with ATS on several occassions. I feel the changes are unncecessary. Truly, the dilemna of IVx2 for 4VP or IV$ for 5 cards is usually difficult to decide between. However, both variants still look interesting. Would like feedback on them, from anyone really.

I'm guessing you mean Deserted Alien Library for the 2nd one? I'm not seeing a Lost Alien Library in either base nor exp set, unless you meant for Lost Alien Library to also replace the other's title. Again, I don't feel this is necessary. Getting a yellow good plus 5VP from a single card seems to work out nicely.
 
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Alex Rockwell
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I like the variant.

Better than just removing Alien Toy Shop from the deck...
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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The point of the variant is to keep as many things invariant as possible. The density of alien worlds, the density and quality of consume powers, the total number of VP in the deck - they're all the same.

But one thing really does change: the ability to do an early settle of an alien windfall world with a super dooper consume power. Now that's a thing of the past.
 
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Chris Johnson
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MrWeasely wrote:

But one thing really does change: the ability to do an early settle of an alien windfall world with a super dooper consume power. Now that's a thing of the past.


Which hasn't been shown to be a problem...except to a vocal few who keep bitching about it, but never quite seem to address anyone elses' counter-points...

One gives up quite a bit to settle and use ATS early, *and* one telegraphs one's actions for the rest of the game. I'm happy to see someone doing that, *especially* in a multiplayer game.

Even in the "worst-case" scenario of a two-player game with ELC with ATS in its opening hand (something that should happen less than 0.5% of the time for a particular player), the playtesting showed only a 60% win rate for the "killer" combo. That's not broken; that's not even close to broken.

If one is really routinely experiencing game-breaking imbalances with ATS, it would suggest that someone (or -ones) involved in the games isn't/aren't very good at RftG, and/or the group in question has settled into a sub-optimal groupthink that should be very exploitable.

At this point, I've played over 50 games with tGS (more than the vast majority of non-playtesters); I've seen the opening ELC & ATS combo exactly twice (which given the number of 2-player vs. multiplayer games I've played with tGS is just about the expected number).

Once I had it in a two player game, which I won, by about ~6 points. The other time someone else got it in a 4-player game. They came in last by a few points.

In general, this isn't a card I'm looking for, except under particular circumstances; it ends up getting tossed well over half the time it shows up in my hand.

Those complaining about this card are missing the forest for the trees; yes, this card is strong. In particular circumstances. Like *many* other cards in the game. (And wait until the next expansion; oh, the whining we'll see!) And like many other "strong", "under-costed", and/or "broken" cards, it's near-useless in many other, non-particular circumstances.

 
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Dave J McWeasely
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Your post is off topic, please delete it and move it to one of the many "ATS is borken" threads.
 
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Chris Johnson
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You first; after all, *you're* the one trying to "fix" it. :P

(And I'll note that once again, you fail to respond to anyone who disagrees with your position that ATS is a problem.)
 
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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The "Alien Toy Shop (batteries not included)" card seems okay, although a bit lackluster. But the "Lost Alien Library (with comfy chairs)" seems a bit weak to me. How often do you see its consume power getting used more than once?
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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So it gets used once, that's kind of the point. It still nets more VP than its pre-variant counterpart. And if you happen to be 2x'ing that last turn too, then hello 9vp!
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> fnord23, please remove your post arguing in detail that Alien Narcotics Shop is okay as-is.

fnord23 wrote:
You first; after all, *you're* the one trying to "fix" it.

(And I'll note that once again, you fail to respond to anyone who disagrees with your position that ATS is a problem.)


I fail to respond here because this is a thread for a variant. Appropriate posts to variant threads include criticisms like "I don't think your change will accomplish the goals you set for it". As such, I have to state the goal for the variant, which I did in a single sentence. You instead quoted that and replied with eight paragraphs arguing about a tangentially related topic, for which there are already multiple threads dedicated, and to which I am subscribed. If you post your points in the copious ATS-WTF threads, I am eager to respond there.

Another reasonable course of action is for you to delete your post and do nothing, simply concluding that this variant is not to your taste.
 
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Chris Johnson
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Part of my point was that those points have been made (by me and others)in the other threads, and neither you, nor Alex, nor the other people bitching about ATS being broken have addressed them. (That I've seen; it's certainly possible, though unlikely, that I missed something. I welcome correction.)
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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That does not give you permission to puke on this thread. Are you going to remove these posts or am I going to flag you? In the meantime, rest assured I'm working on a reply.
 
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Chris Johnson
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Ummm...I don't need your permission to post. Neither does anyone else.

Don't like it? Start your own website.

(And you might want to read up on what flagging actually *does*...I guarantee you that it doesn't work the way you think it does.)

Get over yourself. You're not that special. :)
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Wei-Hwa Huang
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MrWeasely wrote:
So it gets used once, that's kind of the point. It still nets more VP than its pre-variant counterpart. And if you happen to be 2x'ing that last turn too, then hello 9vp!


Comparing to the pre-variant counterpart, I think the following is pretty incontrovertible:

* If there is no consume phase after this is Settled, the old version is better.
* If there is one consume phase after this is Settled, and the player has a bit of extra consumption in the tableau, then the two versions are equal.
* If there is one consume phase after this is Settled, and the player has no extra consumption in the tableau, then the new version nets 1 more VP (but has one less good to sell).
* If there are more consume phases, with produces in between to refill this world, then the new version is better.

It seems pretty unlikely to me that you would Settle this on the last turn as well as play 2x VP -- it's pretty expensive, and if you're doing 2x VP, you probably don't have a big hand going into the turn.
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Goran Topic
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MrWeasely wrote:
That does not give you permission to puke on this thread. Are you going to remove these posts or am I going to flag you? In the meantime, rest assured I'm working on a reply.

MrWeasely, I normally like your posts, but I'm kind of disappointed here. This was downright rude, and uncalled-for - fnord23's initial post was quite respectful in tone, and I can't see any reason for words such as "puke". You're a frequent poster on these forums - you should know better than to expect internet forum threads to stay on topic for any significant amount of time. It's tantamount to herding cats.

[Case in point: this post, which talks about netiquette, and has nothing to do with the Shop, or batteries]
 
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