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Subject: Murder 101 rss

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brian
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More info is up about Android. Kevin Wilson talks some turkey about the game in the newest post at FFG:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=240
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Jon Greisz
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Great stuff, this is definitely going on my wish list.
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Jim Cote
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This post kinda turned me off the game some.
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Spyros Gkiouzepas
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Actually I liked it. I generally don't like the who dunnit games...

And it sure looks grim.

We shall see...
 
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Allen Doum
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As suggested in the article, there are different ways of looking at what is happening in the game.

Since, as a detective, you are investigating with the assumption that X is the killer, then you will find evidence to support that theory. Likewise, you will find evidence clearing the person you believe to be innocent. Of course, since there you are surrounded by conspiracies, you want to keep your suspicions to yourself.

Or, you could just be framing someone for the crime. Like in Who Stole Ed's Pants?.

Looks like the puzzle pieces are used to link the crime to the factions.

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Martin Cubberley
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ekted wrote:
This post kinda turned me off the game some.

Well, if nothing else, it shows how diverse Kevins game design is.
I'm totally on the fence about the game at the moment though. This is one I'll definitely need more information on.

As an aside, do you think Kevin is basically given free license to make any game he wants for FFG now?
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brian
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ekted wrote:
This post kinda turned me off the game some.

Honestly, me too. But we only have a piece of the puzzle at this point. All this preview did was to make sure that I get the rules or a complete picture before I purchase this or place it as a high priority on my list.
 
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Chris J Davis
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
ekted wrote:
This post kinda turned me off the game some.

Honestly, me too. But we only have a piece of the puzzle at this point. All this preview did was to make sure that I get the rules or a complete picture before I purchase this or place it as a high priority on my list.


Just curious - what about it, specifically?
 
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Jim Cote
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bleached_lizard wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
ekted wrote:
This post kinda turned me off the game some.

Honestly, me too. But we only have a piece of the puzzle at this point. All this preview did was to make sure that I get the rules or a complete picture before I purchase this or place it as a high priority on my list.

Just curious - what about it, specifically?

For me, this latest snippet feels like a Knizia game, and euro/elegance is not FFG's forte. I'm sure it's just a small view of a much larger system. I am still hopeful, and will devour the rules when they come out.
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Alexander Corzo
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Yeah, I have to say this went from a must buy to a wait and see.

I don't like the fact that everyone is just trying to frame someone as opposed to finding out who really committed the crime and stopping them or whatever. So, thematically speaking, you find out who's guilty but the real criminal is still terrorizing the colony or whatever. Seems like a shallow victory even if you win.

Do we ever find out if someone actually committed the crime? Or are all the suspects guilty and just need to proven so?

Weird concept, I think we're missing something...
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Joe Niezelski
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But you're not necessarily really framing someone. You might just be focusing on investigating a specific suspect and turning up lots of dirt on him.

Remember, the one you want to be found guilty is decided by your "hunch", not your "grudge".
 
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Michael Denman
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That's it for me. If someone in my group buys it and wants to give it a spin, sure, I'll try at least once. Definitely off my buy list though. Framing suspects and vehicle rulers just have no appeal to me at all.
 
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Alexander Corzo
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DuckAndCower wrote:
But you're not necessarily really framing someone. You might just be focusing on investigating a specific suspect and turning up lots of dirt on him.

Remember, the one you want to be found guilty is decided by your "hunch", not your "grudge".


yeah, I think we're missing some other element, when I read sci-fi stories from the genre I don't get that all the detectives corrupt and framing their suspects. It goes against the theme of the genre, so I really think we're thinking about it in an unintended way.
 
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Gregg Lewis
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I'm actually excited about this. The idea of building a case against / for someone (with a little bias), right or wrong is very NOIR. I think that's what appeals to me. Slap some cyberpunk on top of that and I'm sold. I guess it's not true deduction, but I thinks it's an intersting mechanic.

I guess I would like to know more about the narrative factor of this game - is it always the same 'cases' or is there a new storyline each time. It could get old (low replay) if it feels like it's on rails everytime. I would want it to be a fresh experience, I don't want the replay factor tied ONLY to the selection of different detectives.

does that make sense?
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Kester J
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aquilaprime wrote:
I'm actually excited about this. The idea of building a case against / for someone (with a little bias), right or wrong is very NOIR. I think that's what appeals to me. Slap some cyberpunk on top of that and I'm sold. I guess it's not true deduction, but I thinks it's an intersting mechanic.


I like this idea as well, but the implementation is odd, and more damningly, unthematic. Why do you find generic 'evidence' and then decide who it does or doesn't incriminate? Either you're finding evidence or you're fabricating evidence, not some weird halfway house. Now if the mechanic was that you found evidence that either incriminated or deincriminated? decriminated? unincriminated? (aha!) exonerated a certain suspect, then you chose whether to release or cover up that evidence, that'd be thematic (and you could have players trying to expose evidence that other players had covered up, which'd be great). But as is, this is a "wait and see" veering towards "ignore".
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Sean
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I agree with most of you, this has gone from a must have blind buy to 'whoa lets hold on there a bit'. I was expecting and very much hoping it would be Blade Runner in an FFG box, but there is more to this puzzle yet. Also I am willing to give Kevin a chance, he has some darn fine games to his name
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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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... ah well, it looks like the hardcore Ameritrash version of Clue will still have to wait.

I'm a big fan of Kevin's work, and the theming here is fantastic, but I'm also a little disappointed that there isn't an actual whodunnit element to the game, and that evidence isn't tied into particular characters. I agree that it could be wonderfully thematic if not all of the detectives wanted the truth to come out, but don't like that the criminal is determined by a Euro-scoring sort of mechanism.

Maybe the conspiracies are actually behind the crimes? But then, assuming at least some of the detectives are legit, why are we arresting a suspect anyway?

Dropped from "must have" to "thinking about it" until we hear more...
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Allen Doum
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While this is clearly not a deduction game in the spirit of Clue or Sleuth, does seem to be a game that tells a story. The murder looks to be only one element of that story. Like any good Noir story, there is more behind the events than whodunit. That should be the conspiracy element. And I doubt that will only have one possible outcome, either.

What has been said (and shown) so far about this game does not seem to address the "personal demons" element, also a important element in noir.

There are some great puzzle games out there, where there is a solution each play, like Mr. Jack. I am more interested in this because it will be a different kind of game.

This still looks like Blade Runner to me. There was no whodunit in that story, but the other elements were there.
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brian
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bleached_lizard wrote:
ColtsFan76 wrote:
ekted wrote:
This post kinda turned me off the game some.

Honestly, me too. But we only have a piece of the puzzle at this point. All this preview did was to make sure that I get the rules or a complete picture before I purchase this or place it as a high priority on my list.


Just curious - what about it, specifically?

I am not sure it is going the route I assume it to take. I thought it would be more about deduction instead of assigning guilt as you want.

I understand this is only a snapshot of more to come. I will definitely wait to see the whole thing before judging what I want to do. But as someone else pointed out, it went from "must buy" to "wait and see."
 
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Joe Niezelski
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I still don't understand why this game was a "must buy" for so many people when there was pretty much no information at all out there. Did that mean that, if FFG said, "Well, it's for sale, but there's no more info coming," you'd have plunked down your $50?

My interest in the game also fell slightly when I read about this part of the gameplay, not because it isn't based on deduction, a type of game that I'm not really a fan of, but because it seems very Euro (as in its connection to the theme is loose at best). However, I do love a handful of Eurogames (mostly Bruno Fald... whatever), so I'm not too worried yet.
 
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Matthew Cary
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My accursed NDA prevents me from saying very much here...

But I can assure people that this is *not* a Euro and that the investigation is not (IMHO) the main source of theme. Hold your judgement until you see the rest of the mechanics Kevin hinted at in his "Murder 101" article.

I will go out on a limb and say that the murder investigation is maybe only half the game. There is plenty of player interaction and having your hunches proved correct in the investigation give you lots of VP, but by no means enough to win the game.

Read the rest of the previews and the rules (when they are posted). There is a lot more to this game than the first designer's article lays out.

If all you knew about Arkham Horrow was the movement mechanics and the "collect clue tokens" system you would think that was a pretty dull game too.
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Bela's dead and Vampira won't talk
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DuckAndCower wrote:
I still don't understand why this game was a "must buy" for so many people when there was pretty much no information at all out there. Did that mean that, if FFG said, "Well, it's for sale, but there's no more info coming," you'd have plunked down your $50?


For me, it was a combination of great theme, a designer whose games I enjoy, and an incorrectly presumed deduction element (heck, when I hear about solving a murder, I think of a mystery and deduction process, especially in a board game), which is something I really enjoy.

So to answer your question, no, I obviously would have waited for a review or the opportunity to play the game, but it would have been a must buy insofar as it seemed like a perfect storm of theme, deduction, and FFG-style gameplay and chrome.
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Jon W
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Kester wrote:
incriminated or deincriminated? decriminated? unincriminated? (aha!) exonerated a certain suspect

OK, I laughed, damn you.

Since when is any game "must buy, sight unseen"? Only thing I'm not too sold on yet is the weird travel arc thingies, but maybe there's more to that than we've seen so far. As with the rest of the game.
 
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Lexingtonian
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I really don't think this is about framing someone. It seems to me that the players are not so closely identified with the investigator characters that they're just finding evidence that's there. The players are sort of like narrators, too, in that the players seem to be determining through gameplay which suspect is guilty. It's more like Mystery Rummy that way, but less abstract.
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Joe Niezelski
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le_cygne wrote:
So to answer your question, no, I obviously would have waited for a review or the opportunity to play the game, but it would have been a must buy insofar as it seemed like a perfect storm of theme, deduction, and FFG-style gameplay and chrome.


Ah, clears things up some. So if it matched your expectations, it would have been a "must buy". I guess I felt much the same when I first saw some pictures of the board.

As for the movement arcs, I don't really see what the (negative) fuss is. I think it's a pretty elegant system of measuring distances without bumping pieces all over the board.

Also, glad to hear that there's significantly more to the game than what we've heard so far, and that it's not overly Euro. I do wish FFG would just give us all the info, though, instead of slowly doling it out. Preorders are open, Christmas is coming up, and I want to know if I should request this one sooner rather than later. Enough with the foreplay already.
 
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