Slyvanian Frog
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Because large monsters take up four spaces, there can be times when the spaces the large monster covers that are closest to a hero do not have LOS to the hero, while the spaces an extra space (of distance) away do.

It is clear from the rules that if any space of a large monster has LOS, the monster has LOS (and vice versa for a hero attacking the large monster).

What is not clear to me is whether you then measure range from the closest space the large monster occupies (even if that space of the large monster does not have LOS), or from the closest space that has LOS.

I'll try a terrible ASCI drawing to give an example.

B = Bane Spider
H = Hero
. = Floor space
W = Wall



. . . . . . .
. . . H . . .
B B W W W W W
B B W W W W W
. . W W W W W

So I believe, for example, that the upper left space of the Bane Spider can see the hero (and is at range 3 from that space). The upper right space of the Bane Spider can not see the hero, but is at range 2.

So since the Bane Spider has LOS, is it at range 3 (from the space that actually has LOS) or range 2?
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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If you take the rules strictly as written, they instruct you to check LOS and calculate range separately, so I think you could use the shorter range. However, I generally play that range and LOS have to be determined from the same square, and I think that's a reasonable guess at their intent.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Dread Our Coming, Suffer Our Presence, Embrace Our Glory (Solonavi War Cry)
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Here's the diagram formatted better, for anyone who cares:

B = Bane Spider
H = Hero
. = Floor space
W = Wall



. . . . . . .
. . . H . . .
B B W W W W W
B B W W W W W
. . W W W W W



(just for reference the [ c ] ... [ /c ] tag is "code" which uses preformatted text (obviously you'll want to remove the spaces inside the brackets, though).



Antistone wrote:
If you take the rules strictly as written, they instruct you to check LOS and calculate range separately, so I think you could use the shorter range. However, I generally play that range and LOS have to be determined from the same square, and I think that's a reasonable guess at their intent.

I'm not sure I completely agree that was the intent; Measuring from the same square LOS comes from in a way makes it seem like it's 4 separate figures moving as one. When you allow LOS and Range to be drawn separately, it feels more like a single monster whos parts all work in tandem.

The Spider's right side may not be able to "see" through the wall, but if the left side can, the unseeing "right" side could reach around the wall using the left eye as a guide. (Rough example, I know, but the entire creature is working as a united whole, not as separate, distinct "subparts").
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Jeremy Lennert
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That explanation assumes that you only need LOS for aiming, and that the attack doesn't require line-of-effect. I'm assuming that a skeleton in the same position as the spider's right half couldn't attack the hero, not merely because it couldn't see the hero, but because there's an actual wall in the way, and therefore no way for an arrow to get from the skeleton's bow to the hero.

The existence of such things as the Precision skill (which allows you to fire through one figure/obstacle) and the Blast ability (which allow you to hit monsters around corners) supports the idea that the restriction is really about line-of-effect rather than aiming.
 
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Ryan Hanson
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Ok, here's my two bits.

I think everyone agrees on this:
Quote:
Step 2: Confirm Line of Sight
...
If attacking with a large monster, the overlord player need
only trace line of sight from the center of one of the spaces
it occupies to the center of the space it is targeting.

The next step reads:
Quote:
Step 3: Count Range and Roll Attack
Next, the attacking player counts the number of spaces
from the space occupied by the attacking figure to the
targeted space. This is the range of the attack.

It seems clear that the rule is to count the number of spaces from the attacking figure to the targeted space. And, where line of sight was measured from is irrelevant, only that line of sight was confirmed in Step 2.

So, in the example:

B = Bane Spider
H = Hero
. = Floor space
W = Wall
. . . . . . .
. . . H . . .
B B W W W W W
B B W W W W W
. . W W W W W


I would say the range is 2.
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Corbon Loughnan
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Quote:
Quote:
Step 3: Count Range and Roll Attack
Next, the attacking player counts the number of spaces
from the space occupied by the attacking figure to the
targeted space. This is the range of the attack.

It seems clear that the rule is to count the number of spaces from the attacking figure to the targeted space. And, where line of sight was measured from is irrelevant, only that line of sight was confirmed in Step 2.


I think you miss something important. It is clear only that the rule is to count the number of spaces from 'the space' of the attacking figure to the targeted space. this is subtly but importantly different from what you wrote.
'The space' would, by default, refer to the same space used previously within the discussion, which is the space used to calculate LOS.

It is not at all clear. If the writing is precise, then 'the space' must refer to the same space as used for LOS and therefore Range calculation must be from the same space as LOS calculation.

The chief argument against this reading is that the rules in general are dreadfully imprecise.

I will continue to use the same space on a large monster for both LOS and Range calculations.
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