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Memoir '44» Forums » General

Subject: Wargamers wants to try Memoir or Tide of Iron... Too Simple? rss

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Curtis Bensmiller
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
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Hey Everyone,

I've played a lot of serious war games in the past and ASL is one of the best I've played. It's very in depth and loads of strategy to choose from. The detail and expansions also make it a wonderful game. Sometimes they are long and very thought provoking, but that's what always makes them interesting. I also play the miniature game Flames of War so I know the level of detail on the components on that one is fantastic.

I've been curious to try out Memoir 44, and/or Tide of Iron, but I'm wondering how it compares to some of the more detailed war games out there.

Now, I'm not talking about depth of games, because I know there is a lot more detail in the games I've played. But the biggest thing I'm wanting to know is how the fun factor, scenarios and components are to some of the other monster games and/or miniature games out there.

Should I pick it up? Or should I stay away based on my tastes of play.

If it's a light war game that doesn't take that long to play, I may still be interested.

Weigh in on your opinions.

Thanks.
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Kevin Duke
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Tide is much closer to Squad Leader, in terms of complexity, tactics, historical "details" (differences in weaponry, command, etc.)

Memoir is part of the Commands and Colors system. There are those who like the system (and I am one of them) and those who hate the idea that cards will restrict what they can move and when. If you're used to-- and insist on-- the idea that "I can move all my guys whenever I want to, shoot my guys whenever I choose to and they have a shot" and anything less than that will make you unhappy, then I'd pass Mem. 44 entirely.

As someone who got totally burned out by the "simulation" and detail and permutations of the ASL system, I happen to like C&C-- with Commands and Colors Ancients being the game I've played more than anything else since it came out two years ago (and I have not been a big "ancients" fan, but the period and the system seem to work best in this combination.)

That's as clearly as I can distinguish between the two games in not-so-subjective ways. A lot of folks seem to think Mem. 44 and ToI are "similar" but a look at the rules will tell you otherwise. The rules for ToI are downloadable-- take a look and see if you like it.

Fwiw, though you did not ask about that one, I'm hearing from a number of people that the Combat Commander system seems to take the best parts of Squad Leader and Up Front-- heavy on the former, light on the latter-- and put them into an exciting game.
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Tim Benjamin
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Memoir '44 is exactly what it says it is; TOI is 5 times as much effort for nearly the same result. Memoir all the way in this race.
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F H
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M44 is way lighter. Lots of dice and cards control your success. If that puts you off then stay clear.

That said there are tactics. Clever card play and knowing how best to use your units will make you a better player.

You can of course rationalise the lack of control that the cards give you and thats no different to the pips in a DBA game.

If you want a light fun game, M44.
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"GAME OVER, MAN. GAME OVER!"
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First, let me throw in a couple of links...
Here you can download rules for the base game and all current expansions for:

Tide of Iron:
http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm...

Memoir 44:
http://www.daysofwonder.com/memoir44/en/content/rules/

Tide of Iron has a lot in common with old school wargames like Squad Leader, taking the best from that school of thought, combining it with streamlined FFG gameplay and gorgeous bits! Great fun! The game looks good and plays well, has quite a few scenarios, especially if you turn to the fan material, and it´s playable in teams. There´s only one expansion out so far, but more on their way...

Memoir 44 has the advantage of being so simple that you can more or less memorize the rules in their entirety! After only a few games, you won´t have to check the rules anymore, or refer to tables. You can fully absorb yourself in playing the game! It has expansions that cover a wide range of theaters of war, plenty scenarios, again including fan material, different scenario formats, and the possibility to play with up to 8 people... And it has airplanes! The simplicity of the rules, makes most new aditional rules variations on a theme, making them easy to learn and remember.

I love both games, but love Memoir just that bit more, because it´s easy "teachability" lets me play WWII scenarios with a wider range of people! Even my mother-in-law has gotten into it!
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brian
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I am for M44 all the way but have never played ToI (by choice) or ASL (not available to me). I would suggest checking M44 out on Vassal. You can learnt he game if someone is online and try before you buy.
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John O'Haver
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I've played ASL extensively in the past and I play M'44 regularly now. I played TOI repeatedly every weekend for a month at the request of a friend with a commercial interest in the game.

For me, now, Memoir '44 is almost the ideal blend of complexity, game length and fun (C&C:Ancients is the ideal). Better play is rewarded most of the time but one can get completely hosed by the dice and cards on occasion. The Eastern Front and/or Pacific Front expansions raised the game from an 8 to 9 for me. Although I'm not 100% happy with marketing direction of DoW as of late.

From my Tide of Iron game comments:

Quote:
In my opinion the rules in TOI governing gaining and keeping initiative, gaining command points, the purchase and the use of the combinations of the multiple Strategy card decks, all the stuff that you need to think about that is not on map, are game sub-systems that detract from the immersiveness of the combat portion of the game.

These game sub-systems feel like an unneccessarily complex set of processes designed to distract the player from the fact that this is just as big of a dice-fest as Memoir '44 and takes it three or four times as long to play.



Ideally you can try before you buy at your FLGS or through a friend.

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Luigi54
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I never tried TOI but played 51 times M44.
I have more complex games than M44 but when it comes the time to play we easily take M44 because is fast, easy and in his simplicity gives you the feeling that the orders coming to you (the cards) must be followed, even if the situation should dictate other actions.
You as field commander have the option to choose from the cards... but you are not free to make something else.
Downtime is really small, something amost 0, because when your opponent is thinking what to do, you can already decide what you want to do.
Surprises are around the corner, like the card AMBUSH. Imagine you have a card for moving certain troops. You moved them adjacent to the opponent troops, declared the attacks and shaking the dices... then suddendly your opponent said AMBUSH. He has now to attack from the hex you wanted to attack.

Or the card COUNTERATTACK, allowing the opponent to make the same move/attack that you just completed.
What is difficult to explain is that the few rules of M44 are easy to teach, to remember and allow a smooth and rewarding game.
Playing a scenario is fast and if you have 3 hours time, you can easily finish 6 games. To accomplish this, it's a very good idea to play the same scenario twice, changing roles.
Lately I had available 4,5 hours and finished 14 games! Amazing for a wargame.
I was used to have troubles to finish a single game in one evening...
You can as well see the playing time M44 40 minutes, Toi 120 minutes...
Good choice

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Gregory Wong
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One of best Memoir '44 experiences I had was playing an Overlord game at a convention. You have a board that is twice as wide. Each side has 3 field commanders and 1 overall commander. I was the overall commander for the allies. Each of the field commanders is responsible for about one-third of the board. As overall commander, you have to decide which cards to give to which field commander. Of course, you don't have enough cards to give everything to every field commander, so you have to decide what's important. There was a lot tension as field commanders kept asking for cards. I had a blast.
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