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Love the game? Love the lit? Need a last-second xmas gift for a buddy?

Elysian Fields Quarterly is a great mag. I bought a subscription for my dad last year. But they're in danger of going under, and need subscribers. Consider buying a subscription to help save a worthwhile endeavour.

http://efqreview.com/

Ok, it looks like spam. But it really is a heartfelt plea from one geek to many to help preserve something of cultural value.
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I've enjoyed the issues of EFQ that I've read. But your subject header makes me want to puke. I guess there are people for whom the appeal of baseball lies in su hokey sentimentality, but for me it's about what could happen, the fact that any time you watch a game, you could see something you've never seen before.
 
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molnar wrote:
I've enjoyed the issues of EFQ that I've read. But your subject header makes me want to puke. I guess there are people for whom the appeal of baseball lies in su hokey sentimentality, but for me it's about what could happen, the fact that any time you watch a game, you could see something you've never seen before.


Unless hip hop music starts blaring and both teams stop playing to grind each other while dancing on the diamond, I don't see what the chances of seeing something not seen in every other baseball game are.

Then again, I can't stand the game, so my opinion is worth zilch.
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MasterGeek wrote:
molnar wrote:
I've enjoyed the issues of EFQ that I've read. But your subject header makes me want to puke. I guess there are people for whom the appeal of baseball lies in su hokey sentimentality, but for me it's about what could happen, the fact that any time you watch a game, you could see something you've never seen before.


Unless hip hop music starts blaring and both teams stop playing to grind each other while dancing on the diamond, I don't see what the chances of seeing something not seen in every other baseball game are.

Then again, I can't stand the game, so my opinion is worth zilch.


I see something I've never seen in every single ballgame I watch. I don't think you're watching it right.
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Quote:
I see something I've never seen in every single ballgame I watch. I don't think you're watching it right.


Needless to say, I agree.

However, baseball is not for the distracted. Neither is it for the casual observer. Baseball truly becomes fascinating the MORE you watch it, the more you know, the more familiar you are with the players and managers, and the history of the team and even the ballparks.

Why do you think basketball is one of the most popular sports right now? I'm not going to say that there's not some strategy, and tactics, involved in the game. But its mostly just out there. You see what you see.

But baseball... ah... its a game of suspense. To appreciate the game of baseball, you have to learn what the players and manager(s) are trying to do. EVERY PITCH generally has a purpose. The batter likes to jump the first pitch? He's a fastball hitter? The first pitch is a slider, low and away? Now he's got the hitter thinking... off speed and away? Now the next pitch is up around his eyes? Showing him the fastball, to get his timing for the breaking pitches off?

There's little things... tiny little things, sometimes... going on everywhere in the field of play, all the time. You can really only appreciate baseball after a couple of years of dedicated and serious observation.

I used to have season tickets, and it would really annoy the **** out of me when people would stand up and go get a nth in a seemingly endless number of liquid refreshments.... because, even if the beer boy didn't think anything was going on, *I* was watching the repositioning of the fielders, the communication between the 2nd baseman and the shortstop, the signs flashed by the 3rd base coach, and the lead being taken by the runner at first.

Baseball has nothing going on? Are you serious???
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You're so making me wish I could recognize pitches with any useful consistency. Even so, there's interesting stuff going on at so many levels, from the individual batter-pitcher conflicts all the way to how a general manager assembles a team, and it's all fascinating.
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Don't be fooled by them, MasterGeek. The "sport" is indefensible. Each regular season game is a fraction of 1% of the entire season. You have a chance to make it to the championships if you somehow manage to lose ONLY 70 times. SEVENTY. SEVEN-ZERO. The best team in the regular season this past year would have gotten a D- if its winning percentage were a grade.

In closing, if baseball is so nuanced and requires so much careful attention to detail, why do all the fans choose to drink themselves into oblivion at the games?

Thank you. Tip your waitress.

-MMM

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I agree that the more you watch bseball, the better it is. It's the closest thing to chess in pro sports.

But I don't watch anymore, because I can't watch 40+ games/season.

Reading about it remains wonderful, though. So tell your baseball-loving buddies. EFQR is worth saving.
 
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The only thing worse than baseball is the breathless, reverential fawning of its acolytes, who ascribe absurd, holy qualities to their anointed game. It's...terrifying.

There's not a more frightening creature on this Earth than a baseball fundamentalist. When you meet one, you should flee at high speed to avoid being devoured like a battered investigator in the Arkham Horror endgame.
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Octavian wrote:
why do all the fans choose to drink themselves into oblivion at the games?


Not all of 'em do.
I've had one (1) beer at a baseball game - and it was more about having a beer at a baseball game than having a beer.
Besides - beer's served at pretty much every sporting event in the US - that shouldn't be your only reason for dismissing baseball.

There's no sense trying to convince the uninterested. I don't care how exciting you tell me Soccer is - I'm not into it. Neither am I interested in American Football, Basketball, or Tennis.

I'm interested in Baseball.
It's about going to a ballpark, and not knowing what could happen. It's about watching a young player hit a homerun in the bigs for the first time. It's about watching a veteran hit his 500th homerun. It's about catching foul balls down the first-base line. It's about smelling the grass, and bitching about artificial turf. It's about knowing that against all odds, this could be my team's year to go all the way.

Baseball is an amazing sport, despite the beer drinkers.

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Quixote171 wrote:
Octavian wrote:
why do all the fans choose to drink themselves into oblivion at the games?


Not all of 'em do.
I've had one (1) beer at a baseball game - and it was more about having a beer at a baseball game than having a beer.
Besides - beer's served at pretty much every sporting event in the US - that shouldn't be your only reason for dismissing baseball.

There's no sense trying to convince the uninterested. I don't care how exciting you tell me Soccer is - I'm not into it. Neither am I interested in American Football, Basketball, or Tennis.

I'm interested in Baseball.
It's about going to a ballpark, and not knowing what could happen. It's about watching a young player hit a homerun in the bigs for the first time. It's about watching a veteran hit his 500th homerun. It's about catching foul balls down the first-base line. It's about smelling the grass, and bitching about artificial turf. It's about knowing that against all odds, this could be my team's year to go all the way.

Baseball is an amazing sport, despite the beer drinkers.



I didn't mean to offend the baseball fans out there. I'm sure there are many nuances of the game that I don't see. Not because I'm one of "the distracted," but because I don't care to find them. To me, watching baseball is like watching paint dry. I'm not saying baseball IS watching paint dry, it's just for me it holds that amount of excitement.

But I think we should bring back gladiatorial combat, so what do I know?

edit because I shouldn't have been spelling at 5:30 a.m.
 
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MasterGeek wrote:
To me, watching baseball is like watching paint dry. I'm not saying baseball IS watching paint dry, it's just for me it holds that amount of excitement.


That's fair.
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MasterGeek wrote:
To me, watching baseball is like watching paint dry. I'm not saying baseball IS watching paint dry, it's just for me it holds that amount of excitement.


As the great Red Barber said, "Baseball is only dull to dull minds".
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Kafka wrote:
MasterGeek wrote:
To me, watching baseball is like watching paint dry. I'm not saying baseball IS watching paint dry, it's just for me it holds that amount of excitement.


As the great Red barber said, "Baseball is only dull to dull minds".


Or to people who don't enjoy watching others hit things with a stick and run around in a circle (or diamond, whatever).
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MasterGeek wrote:
Kafka wrote:
MasterGeek wrote:
To me, watching baseball is like watching paint dry. I'm not saying baseball IS watching paint dry, it's just for me it holds that amount of excitement.


As the great Red barber said, "Baseball is only dull to dull minds".


Or to people who don't enjoy watching others hit things with a stick and run around in a circle (or diamond, whatever).


This is a vast oversimplification. That's just like saying that board games are dull for people who don't enjoy shuffling plastic or wooden bits around on a tabletop for hours at a time.
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Maksimov wrote:
mistermarino wrote:
There's not a more frightening creature on this Earth than a baseball fundamentalist.


I guess you've never seen a football hooligan.


Yeah, but the hooligan will only pummel your body. He won't suck out your soul, devour it and make you beg for death!
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soltan gris wrote:
Quote:
I see something I've never seen in every single ballgame I watch. I don't think you're watching it right.


Needless to say, I agree.

However, baseball is not for the distracted. Neither is it for the casual observer. Baseball truly becomes fascinating the MORE you watch it, the more you know, the more familiar you are with the players and managers, and the history of the team and even the ballparks.

Why do you think basketball is one of the most popular sports right now? I'm not going to say that there's not some strategy, and tactics, involved in the game. But its mostly just out there. You see what you see.



Like baseball, and any other sport really, when watched casually, it is what it is. The more you watch it, the more you know and understand and the more you will see and apreciate. There is as much strategy and tactics in basketball as there is in baseball (and football, and hockey).

Sorry, but I cannot let the diss of basketball go uncommented.
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bop517 wrote:
soltan gris wrote:
Quote:
I see something I've never seen in every single ballgame I watch. I don't think you're watching it right.


Needless to say, I agree.

However, baseball is not for the distracted. Neither is it for the casual observer. Baseball truly becomes fascinating the MORE you watch it, the more you know, the more familiar you are with the players and managers, and the history of the team and even the ballparks.

Why do you think basketball is one of the most popular sports right now? I'm not going to say that there's not some strategy, and tactics, involved in the game. But its mostly just out there. You see what you see.



Like baseball, and any other sport really, when watched casually, it is what it is. The more you watch it, the more you know and understand and the more you will see and apreciate. There is as much strategy and tactics in basketball as there is in baseball (and football, and hockey).

Sorry, but I cannot let the diss of basketball go uncommented.


Hey, I avoided flat-out insulting baseball until I was informed I couldn't enjoy it because my mind is easily distracted and dull. I understand there's more to sports than what a random person sees. Much like I understand how boardgames can be viewed as pieces of plastic pushed on a board by those who aren't boardgame fans. To each their own. To me, baseball bores me to tears. I don't WANT to learn the strategy, tactics, whatever that is involved in the sport. Not because my brain malfunctions, but because I'm not interested.
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bop517 wrote:
soltan gris wrote:
Quote:
I see something I've never seen in every single ballgame I watch. I don't think you're watching it right.


Needless to say, I agree.

However, baseball is not for the distracted. Neither is it for the casual observer. Baseball truly becomes fascinating the MORE you watch it, the more you know, the more familiar you are with the players and managers, and the history of the team and even the ballparks.

Why do you think basketball is one of the most popular sports right now? I'm not going to say that there's not some strategy, and tactics, involved in the game. But its mostly just out there. You see what you see.



Like baseball, and any other sport really, when watched casually, it is what it is. The more you watch it, the more you know and understand and the more you will see and apreciate. There is as much strategy and tactics in basketball as there is in baseball (and football, and hockey).

Sorry, but I cannot let the diss of basketball go uncommented.


How could you possibly believe this? You're a Bucks fan.
 
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Quote:
Octavian wrote:
why do all the fans choose to drink themselves into oblivion at the games?


Not all of 'em do.


This attitude about baseball fans is sheer idiocy.

When I had season tickets (can't afford 'em anymore, priced out by the team and the corporate sponsorships), the games I really enjoyed were the Tuesday, Wednesday night games. For the same reason Octavian states - the drunken fools.

Serious baseball fans don't get plastered at the game. I used to know everyone who in sat in my section during the seven years I had season tickets. Almost no one holding season tickets in the area got drunk, and very very very few of them drank at all at the games. We were paying attention. Beer takes you away from the action too much, either in the lines for the beer, or to pay the rental fee on it later.

As a matter of fact, what I would say about the drunks, is that the season ticket holders often gave up their seats to games on Friday and Saturday nights, and I HATED those games more than any others - more fools standing up in the middle of the inning, more inane screaming, much more likely to have a damn beachball punched at me, or to have some idiot drop a drink or food all over my gear, or jostle me while I was keeping score.

As far as the length of the season... well, that just makes the season more interesting. You're not usually out of the potential for a playoff slot until relatively late in the season. And even though one game isn't that big a deal... in a 162 game season... there are still elements of strategy and long term decision making that are REWARDED by the fact that you're not fighting one battle, you're fighting a campaign. Managerial strategy is very interesting - can you afford to burn another reliever, knowing that you have a deep pitching series against a very good pitching staff with a deep bullpen? Is your starter, who obviously doesn't have his best stuff today, able to last another inning so that you don't have to burn two relievers just to get to your set up man?

Criticizing baseball because there's a long season, and therefore each game is not significant fails to appreciate the reward of consistency. Baseball rewards teams with not just superstars, but guys on the bench and bullpen who can come in and perform at a relatively high level.

Do you build your team with a whole bunch of guys who will, over time, give you a sustained level of performance, and hope that some of them have break out years? Or do you build your team with an acknowledged #1 starter, a couple of all-star position players, and a bunch of question marks? Do you hope that your main horse can pull you through the season, like Herschiser did? Or do you hope that your question marks all mature at the same time?

What I like about the game: it's about suspense. Not often does a pitcher, for example, just go out in an inning (without previous signs of tiring or loss of control) and just give up back to back homers. Usually, you can see that he's not locating... that his control of his primary pitch, say the slider, isn't good, and that his other breaking stuff isn't working either, and as he tires, its getting worse. You can see it.... if you were close enough, you might even be able to HEAR it. So you wonder.... is the manager going to make the move now? Or will the pitching coach or catcher go out and talk to him? Will they double switch? Is there a situational left hander available? Or should they bring in the sidearm reliever?

Baseball as a game would not be nearly as interesting as it is, without the lengthy season. Suspense plays out over time. The lack of ability to appreciate suspense in a baseball game is a flaw in the observer... not the game itself.


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Much has been written and said, pro and con, about baseball through the ages. But the greatest thing ever said about it--and possibly the greatest thing ever said about anything--was by football analyst Beano Cook.

MLB Commissioner Bowie Kuhn suggested giving free lifetime passes to the Americans returning from captivity after the Iranian hostage crisis.

To which Cook responded, "Haven't they suffered enough?"
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Kafka wrote:
bop517 wrote:
soltan gris wrote:
Quote:
I see something I've never seen in every single ballgame I watch. I don't think you're watching it right.


Needless to say, I agree.

However, baseball is not for the distracted. Neither is it for the casual observer. Baseball truly becomes fascinating the MORE you watch it, the more you know, the more familiar you are with the players and managers, and the history of the team and even the ballparks.

Why do you think basketball is one of the most popular sports right now? I'm not going to say that there's not some strategy, and tactics, involved in the game. But its mostly just out there. You see what you see.



Like baseball, and any other sport really, when watched casually, it is what it is. The more you watch it, the more you know and understand and the more you will see and apreciate. There is as much strategy and tactics in basketball as there is in baseball (and football, and hockey).

Sorry, but I cannot let the diss of basketball go uncommented.


How could you possibly believe this? You're a Bucks fan.




A long time Bucks fan. i.e., I remember the '80's.
 
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mistermarino wrote:
Much has been written and said, pro and con, about baseball through the ages. But the greatest thing ever said about it--and possibly the greatest thing ever said about anything--was by football analyst Beano Cook.

MLB Commissioner Bowie Kuhn suggested giving free lifetime passes to the Americans returning from captivity after the Iranian hostage crisis.

To which Cook responded, "Haven't they suffered enough?"


Well what do you expect from someone named after an anti-flatulence medication?
 
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mistermarino wrote:
The only thing worse than baseball is the breathless, reverential fawning of its acolytes, who ascribe absurd, holy qualities to their anointed game. It's...terrifying.

There's not a more frightening creature on this Earth than a baseball fundamentalist. When you meet one, you should flee at high speed to avoid being devoured like a battered investigator in the Arkham Horror endgame.


It's worse if you live in a baseball-centric town.

City services on the decline? Corruption scandals? Real estate implosion and mass layoffs cutting across a huge swath of the financial sector, in a financial industry town? Who cares -- THE SOX ARE IN TRAINING CAMP!

We moved out here, following a couple friends of ours who'd moved about 2 years prior. They showed zero interest in baseball before, and now they're Sox fans. Bah.

That said, however, I'll say that Fenway is a Church of Baseball, to make my Holy Trinity of Wrigley, Pac Bell (nee 3Com?), and Fenway.

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