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Subject: Canada rss

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Wayne Hitchcock
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Hey hey, I'm back.

After a few enquiries via geekmail as to the game's status, I've decided to issue an update for the game from Hell (from the designers view point).

As you can see from the title of this thread, the game now has a name.

Illustrator #3 has been engaged. Illustrators #1 & #2 having walked off the job (one of them with my deposit!).

The card designs have been finalized in a style that allows for uniformity of text across all the cards.

A set of rules now exists, and has been proof-read by some of my fellow geeks. A big thank you for their input.

Play testing has begun. At the moment is consists of me playing the game solitaire, which doesn't work very well as it's not a solitaire game. Nevertheless, I have discovered it is unbalanced in a couple of ways:

1. At game's end players receive one point for each card they've collected. A player who wins an election receives a Prime Minister card, but the player who wins the election in turn #1 also receives the four original provinces of Confederation.

This results in whoever wins the election in turn #1 gaining a 5 point advantage that is almost impossible to overcome - and the problem is compounded if that player wins any subsequent elections.

2. In terms of this game, Manifest Destiny means the loss of the western half of North America to the United States. Manifest Destiny occurs when all three of the following event cards have been played: Klondike Gold Rush, Whiskey Trade, Cypress HIlls Massacre.

Manifest Destiny can be avoided if there is a strong Canadian presence in the west (referred to as Sovereignty). If the three Sovereignty cards (Northwest Mounted Police, The Great March West, and Canadian Pacific Railway) are played before the three Manifest Destiny cards, the Manifest Destiny event cannot occur. Here's the problem: Manifest Destiny ended 4 of the 6 games I played.

This happens because the Sovereignty cards rely on other events taking place first. For example: The Northwest Mounted Police come into play in response to the Cypress Hills Massacre (this is an historical fact). The Great March West cannot occur until the Northwest Mounted Police are in play (Who do you think marched west?). And the Canadian Pacific Railway can't be played until the Red River Rebellion is defeated. This, however, is just an arbitrary decision on my part.

A solution for this could be to juggle when the sovereignty cards can be played. For example: Canadian Pacific Railway can be played when the Northwest Territories enters Confederation. The Northwest Mounted Police can come into play when either Cypress Hills Massacre or Whiskey Trade is played (the mounties ended the whiskey trade, so it remains historically accurate).

The solution to #1, however, still eludes me. I might make certain cards worth more points, but prime ministers and provinces will all have to be the same or I risk upsetting people.

As always, any and all suggestions, criticisms, etc are welcome.

Wayne

PS: Here are some pictures taken with a crappy web cam of some cards I printed off my desktop printer.

 

Canada's 9th Prime Minister and the British Garrison


 

Nova Scotia and Canada's 6th Prime Minister


 

The First World War






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Adam Brant
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go Canada!

I like the artwork on the cards.
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Brian Cherry
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This sounds like a very interesting game. I'm not good at history, but I do enjoy hearing about Canada.

without reading the rules, I cant offer direct advice, but I can throw you tidbits you can mull over.

If there is one thing I have learned about card games that recreate a set timeline (eg. I have most experience designing movie based games), it is very easy to become hung up on what DID happen and ignore what COULD HAVE happened. What if the mounties fail to stop the whisky trade?

Also, all provinces are not created equal. having participated in many elections on both sides of the country one realizes that government is usually chosen by the east, which I believe has the majority of seats. (please note, I am by no means good at politics either).

Is it possible, at the end to not count the points for the starting confederacy? or the starting confederacty could be given as starting cards worth 0 points, and then once won though an election they could be replaced with the corresponding card with a value?

I think I'll want to try this one out sometime. Let me know if I can help.

Jugg

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Wayne Hitchcock
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I've tweaked the rules a bit:

The mounties can come into play when any of the Manifest Destiny cards are played.

The CPR can be played once the NWT enters Confederation.

Certain events and legislation are now assigned point values.

These changes prevent an insurmountable point advantage for whoever wins the first election, make it less obvious who is actually ahead, and reduce the probability of the Manifest Destiny event ending the game.

It's much more balanced now.

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Steve Duff
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DancesWithBeagles wrote:
Illustrators #1 & #2 having walked off the job (one of them with my deposit!).


shake Hopefully not BGG'ers.
 
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Wayne Hitchcock
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
DancesWithBeagles wrote:
Illustrators #1 & #2 having walked off the job (one of them with my deposit!).


shake Hopefully not BGG'ers.


No, they're too dedicated to their hobby. .
 
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Calvin Daniels
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As a jourmalist who does some game reviews, and being from Canada, this one intrigues me a lot.

look forward to seeing more.
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Wayne Hitchcock
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Oh well, in that case you'll be the first person to receive a copy if... I mean when it's finally finished.

I'm probably going to opt for print and play. It just seems more practical, me living in Taiwan and all.
 
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robin goblin
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Hey Wayne,

This sounds interesting; what style of game is it? Euro? Twilight Struggle-ish?

Robin
 
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Wayne Hitchcock
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noddingoff wrote:
Hey Wayne,

This sounds interesting; what style of game is it? Euro? Twilight Struggle-ish?

Robin


I'm not sure in which category I would put it; it hasn't been modeled after any particular game, but I'm probably not doing anything that hasn't been done somewhere else already.

It's a 3 player game, and players definitely have to compete - but some co-operation will also be required. The PM tries to get things done, the opposition tries to bring him down - and, of course, supplant him in the next election - or at least hinder him in some way

Every action taken by players, however, will affect their influence with certain constituencies, and thus their ability to win elections.

It follows a definite time-line (1867 - 1945), and certain things depend on other things happening first. For example, Canada has to acquire Prince Rupert's Land before the western provinces can be created.

The problems encountered in the OP seem to have been resolved, but a new one has occurred - the game runs out of prime ministers long before the end of the time-line. I'm tweaking the political side of the game to counter this by allowing prime ministers to serve multiple terms.


Here are some sketches recently received from my new illustrator:

 

Illegal Whiskey Trade

 

Klondike Gold Rush

 

The King-Byng Thing (King sans Byng)
 
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Calvin Daniels
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well PMs can serve multiple terms here
 
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Wayne Hitchcock
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Talisinbear wrote:
well PMs can serve multiple terms here


Each player will draw a personality who will be the leader of their party. This personality will also affect the party's electability.

Once elected the personality becomes the Prime Minister. There are no limits on the number of terms a person may serve as Prime Minister; however, when the Prime Minister's party is defeated, the ex-PM is tossed on the dung heap in the age-old Canadian tradition and the party picks a new leader (ie: the player draws one from the deck).

The personalities who don't win the elections are opposition leaders. Opposition leaders can lead their parties to two electoral defeats before being replaced.
 
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Frederic Renaud
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What about a coalition government? it's a hot subject these days in Canada! I'm just kidding, but it looks like an interesting game.
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Wayne Hitchcock
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wildlife wrote:
What about a coalition government? it's a hot subject these days in Canada! I'm just kidding, but it looks like an interesting game.



snore Huh...what? Oh, I'm sorry. I dozed off, you must have been talking about Canadian politics.


Seriously though, that's an interesting point. I had considered majority government and minority government supported by another party, but no official coalitions. I'll explore the possibility. Historically, there was only ever one coalition government, so I might make it possible in extraordinary circumstances - for example, if there's a world war.

And, of course, it will be up to the Queen, in the person of the Governor General - but more likely one of the players.




Edited for typing errors.
 
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This Guy
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This is sounding pretty interesting, and it's a topic that would normally be a dozer for me. What's the playing time look like?
 
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David Gibbs
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DancesWithBeagles wrote:
Talisinbear wrote:
well PMs can serve multiple terms here


when the Prime Minister's party is defeated, the ex-PM is tossed on the dung heap in the age-old Canadian tradition and the party picks a new leader (ie: the player draws one from the deck).

The personalities who don't win the elections are opposition leaders. Opposition leaders can lead their parties to two electoral defeats before being replaced.


Trudeau suffered at least one defeat (to Joe Clark, for a PC minority government) without being booted out, and then came back for another term.

Ed Broadbent led the NDP to multiple defeats without being ousted.

(He is talking 3 players, so you have to consider the 3rd party.)
 
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Wayne Hitchcock
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dagibbs wrote:
Trudeau suffered at least one defeat (to Joe Clark, for a PC minority government) without being booted out, and then came back for another term.

Ed Broadbent led the NDP to multiple defeats without being ousted.


True, but I would argue they are the exception. Canada went through four prime ministers in the two years following Macdonald's death. More recently, the political right went through a number of leaders before re-uniting, and the Liberals are now on their fourth leader in the last two years.

Be that as it may, it all has to reconcile with playability and this seems to work.
 
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Wayne Hitchcock
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Aetheros wrote:
This is sounding pretty interesting, and it's a topic that would normally be a dozer for me. What's the playing time look like?


Oh my God! Is it possible that I might do the unthinkable - make Canadian politics interesting? surprise

So far I've been playing it solo. I imagine a three player game requiring player interaction / negotiation will take longer. My best estimate right now is 30 - 60 minutes.

 
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Matt Vollick
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DancesWithBeagles wrote:


Oh my God! Is it possible that I might do the unthinkable - make Canadian politics interesting? surprise


As a Canadian I can assure you it is not possible. But I do give you credit for trying.


DancesWithBeagles wrote:
1. At game's end players receive one point for each card they've collected. A player who wins an election receives a Prime Minister card, but the player who wins the election in turn #1 also receives the four original provinces of Confederation.

This results in whoever wins the election in turn #1 gaining a 5 point advantage that is almost impossible to overcome - and the problem is compounded if that player wins any subsequent elections.


Without reading the rules or really knowing anything about the game, why not instead of granting the player who wins the initial election in turn #1 a card entitled: "Party of Confederation", which the progressive conservative party was sometimes referred to when they existed. That way they only get a single card, surely that can't be insurmountable.
 
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Wayne Hitchcock
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Vollick1979 wrote:
DancesWithBeagles wrote:


Oh my God! Is it possible that I might do the unthinkable - make Canadian politics interesting? surprise


As a Canadian I can assure you it is not possible. But I do give you credit for trying.


Yes, "interesting Canadian politics" is something of a paradox.


Vollick1979 wrote:

Without reading the rules or really knowing anything about the game, why not instead of granting the player who wins the initial election in turn #1 a card entitled: "Party of Confederation", which the progressive conservative party was sometimes referred to when they existed. That way they only get a single card, surely that can't be insurmountable.


That's an interesting suggestion. However, positive and negative point values have now been added to the event cards, and that seems to balance things out nicely - even with one player gaining an advantage initially.

I'll keep your suggestion in mind all the same. Who knows what further problems play testing will bring to light?


Another teaser:

 

 
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