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Subject: I'll stick with Vanilla, thanks rss

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It's me, the fabulous
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There are plenty of exhaustive reviews in here for Road to Legend (RtL) out there and I'm not going to reinvent the wheel, so if you want a detailed game flow synopsis or rules breakdown you won't find them here. I want to talk about why Road to Legend doesn't work for me personally. I still enjoy Vanilla Descent a ton and will keep playing it, but I don't know if I'll ever tough out a Road to Legend campaign again.

I want to point out that this is a very subjective review, is very personal, and is somewhat stream of consciousness. If that bothers you, turn back now!

Playing Through Jello


One of my biggest problems with RtL is how friggin' long everything takes. I don't mean the actual dungeon levels, I mean any kind of "campaign strategy". These are things like which city to sack as Overlord, when to visit a Secret Master as the heroes, or whatever. Things that don't involve directly slaying stuff and grabbing loot in the dungeons. And that's a problem, because each dungeon takes approximately six hours to play out...and that constitutes a single game turn. Sacking a city can take around 4 turns, which means that your Overlord may plan to sack a solitary city and then see it fall 18 gameplay hours later. But if the Overlord's plans are thwarted at the 12 hour mark? Well he'll be off to burn another city...hope that works out for him. You'll know after another 20+ hours of dungeon crawling.

And believe me, the "campaign strategy" matters a lot in this game. It determines which skills the heroes get and how close the Overlord is to winning the game before the Final Confrontation. You had better pay attention to what happens on the Overworld map as it slowly...slowly...slowly unfolds between dungeon crawls.

I hated this. It felt like I was playing the game through jello, where I would make a decision and only see it reflected in the game one month and 200 shattered skeletons later. For better or for worse, a real-life month may go by before the Overlord plans and then actually sees GrayHaven fall. Vanilla Descent is a relatively fast-paced tactical game. Road to Legend keeps that aspect of the game but slathers a slow-paced strategy game on top of it, and it ultimately taints everything.

The See-Saw Effect

In a game as big as ambitious as Road to Legend there are going to be imbalances, and that's ok. There are quests in Vanilla Descent that are imbalanced and they still manage to be fun. Heck, I've played a dozen games of Fantasy Flight's very own Battlestar Galactica game and lost the majority of them, but still had a great time and would play again in a heartbeat. So a game doesn't have to be balanced to be fun. But it should be fair, or at least feel fair. RtL almost never does.

Throughout the campaign, the heroes and Overlord were put in situations where victory was nearly impossible. Each side would pull out a card that basically would say "you/your opponent is screwed." In one instance the heroes would lay waste to everything on the dungeon level. In the next, the Overlord would pound them into jelly. Folks, it's simply not fun to play a game with two modes: "make the best of a bad situation" or "domination". It was a rare occurrence when both sides felt they had a chance at winning. There were a few surprises but for the most part the game constantly felt stacked against one side or another. So, even though the amount of Conquest points kept the same ratio throughout the campaign (and thus was, in some way, "balanced") the entire time felt either like a horrible trouncing or a supreme victory. There were rarely any nail-biters, something I've found Vanilla Descent to generate quite a lot.

The other problem I have with the game is that everyone knows which skills are insanely good and which ones are trash, and so the "campaign strategy" is, by-and-large, a race by the heroes to get those awesome skills before the Overlord trashes the towns that they are located in. You know exactly what you are going to see for each Hero: Knight, SpiritWalker, Leadership, etc. So a lot of the game is: are the heroes going to end up with overpowered skill combinations that they use round-after-round, thus negating the tactical elements of Descent? Or will the Overlord sack the city and prevent this? Tune in in 23 game-hours to find out!

The Locked-In Adversary

In Vanilla Descent the Overlord is the guy you love to hate, the Blofield oaf of the subterranean set, the mastermind who keeps things more interesting than some brain-dead paper-AI system. In Road to Legend the Overlord ends up battered, bruised, and burnt-out from constantly trying to go braino-y-braino against 4 other players.

It's simply too much to ask a well-adjusted player to sit across the table from his friends and, week after week, devote the entire space of his mental faculties to beating them. Wait, not just beating them...but utterly crushing them. Annihilating them. You can't ever let up as the Overlord, you can't hold back; because of the see-saw nature of RtL, where you never know when your next victory opportunity is going to be. You have Gold Beasts, the players just pulled a level with a Dragon in it, and it's time to bring the pain...over and over and over again, because the next level may have Humanoids and your Ogres are still pathetic Copper weasels, so it's gonna be a cakewalk for the heroes if that happens. And so you smash them, crush them, burn them to death, stall them, whatever it takes. And once they pull the next level dungeon and it's more Beasts, you feel elated. Let the good times roll! Until they pull a boss you haven't upgraded and one-shot him on the second turn.

The fact that Road to Legend takes so damn long to play out and tends to be so one-sided is why the Overlord is such an awful role in this game. At the beginning Copper level of the campaign he's a god, by Gold level he's Gollum. And unlike the Hero players, who can switch around their Heroes relatively easily, the Overlord cannot switch his role to another player (can you imagine? "Ok Tim, you're the Overlord now, here's my strategy for tossing the Sun Gem into eternal Darkness, good luck. I'm just gonna play Steelhorns for you 'till you're sick of it.") In Vanilla Descent, you're the Overlord for a while, you win or lose, you switch roles or do something else. In Road to Legend, you are in Overlord Jail, you're going to be there FOREVER. At the very least your friends are going to grow annoyed with you, and sometimes will get outright hostile. And eventually you can't hide behind "It's what I am supposed to do!" It just gets old.

I also want to point out that I don't care how smart you are, matching wits with 4 other players of similar skill is going to be hard. They will catch mistakes that you won't. So the game mechanics conspire to make the Overlord feel isolated and besieged by the other players. It's like a sick sociology experiment. Somebody needs to write a thesis: "The Overlord: Isolation and Madness in a Fantasy World". Anyone who actually does write that: you owe me a buck for the idea.

What This All Means Together

Now you might be saying, "Now David, you have completely gone off the rails here. In Vanilla Descent, there's an Overlord, and no one feels that way." Well in Vanilla Descent this is not so much a problem due primarily to game length. Once the game session is over, you can switch roles, talk about what just happened, etc. RtL isn't over until months have passed. There's a pall over the table after every session. Nobody knows if the ass-whooping they just got is going to keep being felt a month down the road. Nobody knows if the huge successes are going to continue. And the Overlord just has plain old nobody, and no prospects of anybody on their side.

Because Road to Legend is so friggin' long and time-intensive it starts to get a sort of oppressive momentum. At first you're just laughing about it and having fun. After you have sunk 30 hours into a campaign you start wanting to get a payoff. After 50, you're emotionally invested.

And when you take the see-saw imbalances you just never know when a small issue is going to multiply into a big issue -- if taking Born to the Bow instead of some other skill is going to end up costing you 30 hours from now. Everyone is constantly on edge, scrabbling for a small advantage, firing on all cylinders to beat their adversary. And that's fine in Vanilla Descent, where after 6 hours and 100 dead Beastman you put away the dice and congratulate your opponent for going 100 percent the entire time and close the book on that adventure. Then somebody else says they'll be the Overlord and the current one says, "Good luck with those crappy Hell Hounds, then." That intensity just doesn't work in Road to Legend.

Is there anyone out there who wants to run a marathon as a series of 100 meter dashes? That's how playing Road to Legend felt to me.

Thanks for reading.
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Lukasz Biernat
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Thanks for the review.
I never believed in campaign play for Descent. The vanilla quests were long enough for me. I think I'll skip RTL, With no regular gaming group it makes no sense at all.
 
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Jack Defevers
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Great review, I really enjoyed it.

It also made me want to go out and buy Descent and Road to Legend.

As someone once said, "Different strokes for different groups of people."
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Aaron Tubb
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Well articulated. I have only played it once, but what bugged me was the way dying ended up being more like a 5 minute trip to the mall than an actual penalty.
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Nathaniel GOUSSET
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After reading what you post I just cant agree more...

RtL had some very nice potential, but now it will never again hit the table because the Heroes Players find it horribly unbalanced at copper level and they dont have the guts to play until gold.

Perhaps it is time to devise a use for all thoses rumors, dungeon and special areas...

Maybe a cross between Warhammer Quest campaign and Descent RTL... that is something that need to be thinked over.
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Simon Lundström
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Very, very well written. I haven't played RtL but I firmly understand what you're on to. I'd absolutely HATE to be Overlord (or player) for such a long campaign.

I remember, in Mutant Chronicles, you swapped being Overlord between quests. That was pretty neat.
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Jim Patching
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I agree with a lot of your points here. My group played a campaign of RTL and really enjoyed it ... well, until getting to Gold Level at which point it seemed a bit pointless as the heroes were un-touchable. After completing that campaign we started another one but ... well, just couldn't really be bothered seeing it through.

Having said that, playing through a single campaign of RTL means that that game has still had a lot more playing time that a lot of the other games I own!
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Jeff Kahan
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Wonderful review! I really love Descent in general and was really looking forward to RTL. I ended up running a campaign as the Beastman Lord and had Alric beseige Tamalir just before hitting Silver. He was able to stay there and add tokens and kicked the heroes' tail again and again until I managed to roll for the win. It was kind of a let down but I knew early on (after losing Shadow Clones to the rumor) that I'd die in the final confrontation. The whole thing left a sour taste in everyone's mouths and I just don't know if we'll ever get another RTL campaign in. We enjoyed parts of the campaign but also disliked many of the points you brought up.



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David Reeves
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Our group understands about see-saw play and emotions. During the first campaign, the OL had us on the ropes from the beginning (because of our many mistakes). The heroes were either gritting their teeth and/or depressed.

In the second campaign, the situation is quite the opposite. The heroes are playing much better and have an edge in starting heroes. Now it's the OL that is going through the pain (for now).

While I like the campaign game now, I'm not sure it will stay that way. Is the game balanced but because of its length, we see more of the cycles of the "thrill of victory" and the "agony of defeat"??? Now that both the OL and heroes are playing their A-game, this campaign will be quite revealing as to overall balance in the end.


 
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Chris Ferejohn
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Greywing wrote:
Great review, I really enjoyed it.

It also made me want to go out and buy Descent and Road to Legend.

As someone once said, "Different strokes for different groups of people."


Yeah, I have played neither (though a friend of mine recently bought "vanilla" Descent and we're going to try it out as soon as we have time), but most of the points in this post made me want to try RtL. In my mind that is a hallmark of a great critical review: you can describe the things that you don't like in objective enough terms that people who might *like* some of those things can still perceive that.

Great work!
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Mike Kozlowski
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Yeah, this anticipates my frustration with the game. (Which is to say: I actually was bothered by things that hit earlier, but looking down the road, I could see this sort of thing coming, so wasn't motivated to push through the earlier difficulties.)

In a world without other fantasy campaign games, it might be worth it. But, well, D&D exists, and 4e's tactical combat is richer and more interesting than Descent; the D&D story structure that battles are hung onto is vastly preferable to me than the strategic game structure of RtL; the human-mediated experience is capable of more varied and surprising gameplay than a rulebook-mediated one; and the role of the merciful-opponent-god DM is much more fun to play than the role of the oppressive-jerk-opponent Overlord, both for the greater discretion and leeway it gives you, the greater ablility to do interesting things, and the way it doesn't make people hate you a lot unless you want it to.

I have to give credit to RtL for moving me into a position where I could play RPGs (which I'd always dismissed before as pseudo-gaming for drama twinks), but unfortunately it did that by being purely inferior.
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Slyvanian Frog
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mkozlows wrote:
Yeah, this anticipates my frustration with the game. (Which is to say: I actually was bothered by things that hit earlier, but looking down the road, I could see this sort of thing coming, so wasn't motivated to push through the earlier difficulties.)

In a world without other fantasy campaign games, it might be worth it. But, well, D&D exists, and 4e's tactical combat is richer and more interesting than Descent; the D&D story structure that battles are hung onto is vastly preferable to me than the strategic game structure of RtL; the human-mediated experience is capable of more varied and surprising gameplay than a rulebook-mediated one; and the role of the merciful-opponent-god DM is much more fun to play than the role of the oppressive-jerk-opponent Overlord, both for the greater discretion and leeway it gives you, the greater ablility to do interesting things, and the way it doesn't make people hate you a lot unless you want it to.

I have to give credit to RtL for moving me into a position where I could play RPGs (which I'd always dismissed before as pseudo-gaming for drama twinks), but unfortunately it did that by being purely inferior.


Which is interesting, because I hate the merciful opponent-god DM thing.

I want play a game, not local community theater. Any meddling or changing of the rule system midstream is annoying to me. I would not want to play a game of baseball and hear, "Manny is just crushing the Marlins - oh wait, the commissioner just gave the Marlins A-Rod and changed it so he can bat twice in the order! What an awesome plot twist!"

Just different strokes for different folks I guess. I used to play D&D, but don't think I would enjoy it anymore.
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Skip Olivares
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I'm another person who played RtL (once) and enjoyed it, but still found this to be a great review. Really well presented. Nicely done.
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Anthony
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Greywing wrote:
Great review, I really enjoyed it.

It also made me want to go out and buy Descent and Road to Legend.

As someone once said, "Different strokes for different groups of people."


It made me feel the opposite (and the same way as this reviewer) - I'm glad I traded my copy away. Haven't looked back.

Well-written review, clearly presented. Good job.
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Peter Folke
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Interestingly, when I fírst read about the criticisms you bring up I thought "well, if that's their only gripe with this game, I am definitely in"
Now, it turns out that I agree with those criticisms, and that they are enough to turn me off the game.
However, I am glad that I tried RtL, cuz else I might be frustrated by the lack of campaign rules. Now, I feel I can better appreciate vanilla Dsecent.

Also, awesome review.
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David Tolin
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daveboy wrote:
One of my biggest problems with RtL is how friggin' long everything takes. I don't mean the actual dungeon levels, I mean any kind of "campaign strategy". These are things like which city to sack as Overlord, when to visit a Secret Master as the heroes, or whatever. Things that don't involve directly slaying stuff and grabbing loot in the dungeons. And that's a problem, because each dungeon takes approximately six hours to play out...


Okay... this makes me very curious. I own and enjoy vanilla Descent. However, we never play it because it's too long. After reading a lot about RtL, the take-away impression I got from the reviews and comments was that RtL actually makes the game shorter--turning a 4-5 hour game of vanilla Descent into a ~2 hour game using the new campaign rules.

Your comment seems to indicate exactly the opposite. I added RtL and Well of Darkness to my Christmas list in the hopes that I would be able to start playing Descent again due to the shorter playing time for individual sessions. Did I make the wrong decision? I want a shorter game--not a longer one.

Thanks for any input!
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Chris J Davis
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DavidT wrote:
daveboy wrote:
One of my biggest problems with RtL is how friggin' long everything takes. I don't mean the actual dungeon levels, I mean any kind of "campaign strategy". These are things like which city to sack as Overlord, when to visit a Secret Master as the heroes, or whatever. Things that don't involve directly slaying stuff and grabbing loot in the dungeons. And that's a problem, because each dungeon takes approximately six hours to play out...


Okay... this makes me very curious. I own and enjoy vanilla Descent. However, we never play it because it's too long. After reading a lot about RtL, the take-away impression I got from the reviews and comments was that RtL actually makes the game shorter--turning a 4-5 hour game of vanilla Descent into a ~2 hour game using the new campaign rules.

Your comment seems to indicate exactly the opposite. I added RtL and Well of Darkness to my Christmas list in the hopes that I would be able to start playing Descent again due to the shorter playing time for individual sessions. Did I make the wrong decision? I want a shorter game--not a longer one.

Thanks for any input!


Each RtL campaign takes approx 60+ hours to play.

Each campaign is made up of multiple dungeons (approx. 12-15).

Each dungeon is made up of 3-4 levels.

Each level takes about 1-1.5 hours to play.

The game can be paused, saved and packed away between dungeons or between dungeon levels.
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Mike Kozlowski
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It does make individual dungeons shorter -- but individual dungeons are no longer the game, instead being just an element of a single turn of the game. Imagine playing a game of Runebound where every turn takes two hours; that gives you a feel for it.
 
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daveboy wrote:

Is there anyone out there who wants to run a marathon as a series of 100 meter dashes? That's how playing Road to Legend felt to me.

Thanks for reading.


Hello Dave,

to be honest, RtL feels to me more like a football league (or any other league), where you play a series of matches and they all sum up in the end, and then the result shows you how well you did throughout the league instead of just one match.
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Brunop wrote:

Hello Dave,

to be honest, RtL feels to me more like a football league (or any other league), where you play a series of matches and they all sum up in the end, and then the result shows you how well you did throughout the league instead of just one match.


That's another very good way to look at it, but you are leaving out an important point -- the nature of Road to Legend means that the "losing side" cant be penalized in a future game for the results of a past game. In other words, it's a football league with rules such as "if you throw three interceptions over the course of a game, you are forced to play with your 2nd-string quarterback for the next game". It's up to the players if this is something that they want to participate in.
 
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Simon K
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Hmmmmmm, it doesnt sound like this game at all. This game is about heroes fighting minions of an Overlord in dungeons all over the land, to become powerful enough to challenge the evil Overlord in his Keep and smash the living daylights out of him.


 
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Simon K
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But let me tell you about a game called GO.
Its like two teams of fully body-painted people who take position and stare at each other in little groups until little sub-groups decide to leave the field because they´re pretty much impressed with the futility of it all.

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Alexander Corzo
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siempietiempie wrote:
But let me tell you about a game called GO.
Its like two teams of fully body-painted people who take position and stare at each other in little groups until little sub-groups decide to leave the field because they´re pretty much impressed with the futility of it all.



lol! Good one.

We love descent and I think the OP is expecting things the game just can't give him. It is what it is. This is not a RPG!

It's like playing chess and saying "...at every turn I have to use the best possible strategy to defeat my opponent! I always have to be mean and try and kill his pieces! And, and, to top it off, I have to scheme sometimes 4 turns ahead to bring about his ultimate demise! When can I just invite his Royal court over and we can discuss terms? (also known as Victory Points)"

I don't get it? It's like complaining about having to gain more points than anyone else in a Euro or that the DM has total control of an RPG game. It's part of the game. If you don't like mercilessly beating up on your friends for hours on end then why are you playing Descent?

Well, I guess you can complain about it but it is a bit odd don't you think?

We can't get enough of this game and if I'm the OL player nothing pleases me more than crushing my friends and never let them forget what puny little peons they are and how worthless their heroes are now laying in shallow graves while Tamilar burns!!!! HAhahahahahaha!!!!

(of course this usually leads to the next game where we try to wipe that smile off the next OL's face)
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Blustar wrote:

lol! Good one.


No, it wasn't. I'm sad to see that the replies to this review have basically started to devolve into back-slapping, strawmen, and trite little sayings of "I don't get it." Oh, I get it.

Unfortunately I am going to have to go to the quote-reply-quote-reply method of response. Which I hate, but you simply piled too much garbage into your post to address without getting into specifics.

Quote:
It's like playing chess and saying "...at every turn I have to use the best possible strategy to defeat my opponent! I always have to be mean and try and kill his pieces! And, and, to top it off, I have to scheme sometimes 4 turns ahead to bring about his ultimate demise! When can I just invite his Royal court over and we can discuss terms? (also known as Victory Points)"


Yes, it's like Chess. Except for the important distinction that you are playing a chess variant where you move a piece on the board, then go play a completely different game for 4-6 hours, then move another piece on the chessboard. Which, of course, would dilute the Chess experience without adding anything to it. Kind of like how Road to Legend dilutes the Descent experience without adding anything to it.

In addition, I never said anything about diplomacy or Royal Courts in the game review, so I'll assume this is some sarcastic and unfunny one-off comment to support whatever you misread into my review.

Quote:
I don't get it? It's like complaining about having to gain more points than anyone else in a Euro or that the DM has total control of an RPG game. It's part of the game. If you don't like mercilessly beating up on your friends for hours on end then why are you playing Descent?

Well, I guess you can complain about it but it is a bit odd don't you think?


As I clearly stated in my review I do enjoy mercilessly playing the adversary to my friends for hours. What I don't enjoy, and what I made clear in my review, is playing an adverserial role to 4 other players, for hours at a time, for months on end. It's a questions of degrees. Here's an example I'm sure you can appreciate: you love double cheeseburgers, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to eat nothing but cheeseburgers for months on end. This concept is something a child could understand. You can't. Hmmm. Perhaps all of that "lol"ing over a weak "Go play GO" burn is to blame?

Quote:
We can't get enough of this game and if I'm the OL player nothing pleases me more than crushing my friends and never let them forget what puny little peons they are and how worthless their heroes are now laying in shallow graves while Tamilar burns!!!! HAhahahahahaha!!!!


Is there anyone out there who wants to hear trash-talk after a 50+ hour see-saw of a game? That's another problem with Road to Legend -- you can't even get a good trash talking in afterwards, unlike Vanilla. If you made it through Gold campaign, the heroes have been most likely dominating the Overlord for a good 15 hours or more. If the Overlord sacked Tamalir, he probably did it during the Copper beatdown of the heroes. Either way it's pretty unsatisfying to rip on an opponent when the rules clearly favored one side or the other. You might have noticed that I addressed this in my review above.

Furthermore, after being told how "worthless and puny" they were by the prior Overlord, the new Overlord gets to be locked into an adverserial role for the next 20+ hours against 3/4ths of his former teammates. And he's smiling about it? Would this game, perhaps, take place at the Legion of Doom headquarters with Lex Luthor as the Overlord? Because it sounds pathological.

The game is just takes too long to play to be enjoyed and is not balanced enough to sustain that kind of length. You can read whatever else you want into it.
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Alexander Corzo
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daveboy wrote:
Blustar wrote:

lol! Good one.


No, it wasn't. I'm sad to see that the replies to this review have basically started to devolve into back-slapping, strawmen, and trite little sayings of "I don't get it." Oh, I get it.

Unfortunately I am going to have to go to the quote-reply-quote-reply method of response. Which I hate, but you simply piled too much garbage into your post to address without getting into specifics.

Quote:
It's like playing chess and saying "...at every turn I have to use the best possible strategy to defeat my opponent! I always have to be mean and try and kill his pieces! And, and, to top it off, I have to scheme sometimes 4 turns ahead to bring about his ultimate demise! When can I just invite his Royal court over and we can discuss terms? (also known as Victory Points)"


Yes, it's like Chess. Except for the important distinction that you are playing a chess variant where you move a piece on the board, then go play a completely different game for 4-6 hours, then move another piece on the chessboard. Which, of course, would dilute the Chess experience without adding anything to it. Kind of like how Road to Legend dilutes the Descent experience without adding anything to it.

In addition, I never said anything about diplomacy or Royal Courts in the game review, so I'll assume this is some sarcastic and unfunny one-off comment to support whatever you misread into my review.

Quote:
I don't get it? It's like complaining about having to gain more points than anyone else in a Euro or that the DM has total control of an RPG game. It's part of the game. If you don't like mercilessly beating up on your friends for hours on end then why are you playing Descent?

Well, I guess you can complain about it but it is a bit odd don't you think?


As I clearly stated in my review I do enjoy mercilessly playing the adversary to my friends for hours. What I don't enjoy, and what I made clear in my review, is playing an adverserial role to 4 other players, for hours at a time, for months on end. It's a questions of degrees. Here's an example I'm sure you can appreciate: you love double cheeseburgers, but I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to eat nothing but cheeseburgers for months on end. This concept is something a child could understand. You can't. Hmmm. Perhaps all of that "lol"ing over a weak "Go play GO" burn is to blame?

Quote:
We can't get enough of this game and if I'm the OL player nothing pleases me more than crushing my friends and never let them forget what puny little peons they are and how worthless their heroes are now laying in shallow graves while Tamilar burns!!!! HAhahahahahaha!!!!


Is there anyone out there who wants to hear trash-talk after a 50+ hour see-saw of a game? That's another problem with Road to Legend -- you can't even get a good trash talking in afterwards, unlike Vanilla. If you made it through Gold campaign, the heroes have been most likely dominating the Overlord for a good 15 hours or more. If the Overlord sacked Tamalir, he probably did it during the Copper beatdown of the heroes. Either way it's pretty unsatisfying to rip on an opponent when the rules clearly favored one side or the other. You might have noticed that I addressed this in my review above.

Furthermore, after being told how "worthless and puny" they were by the prior Overlord, the new Overlord gets to be locked into an adverserial role for the next 20+ hours against 3/4ths of his former teammates. And he's smiling about it? Would this game, perhaps, take place at the Legion of Doom headquarters with Lex Luthor as the Overlord? Because it sounds pathological.

The game is just takes too long to play to be enjoyed and is not balanced enough to sustain that kind of length. You can read whatever else you want into it.


Hey I was being sarcastic and trying to be funny (unfunny?) Relax, man, I get it that you don't like it. Maybe you're just burnt out on the game? It happens with almost any game if you play it too much.

We don't play our Descent campaigns everytime we get together either. You make it sound like you play it 20 hours in a row without playing any other games. That would burn me out too I guess.

We bring it out twice a month and Descend (lol) into the madness.

As an aside we would never play the base game ever again as it pointless and unsatisfying for us. In other words boring.

Hey, I respect your views and it's probably one of those different strokes type of things, if your group isn't having fun playing it then you're doing the right thing discontinuing.

We also Roleplay alot so I guess it's funny and a change of pace to just take the gloves off and do some damage and enjoyable in a wierd twisted way.

Sorry, I upset you, take it easy...
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