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Tribune: Primus Inter Pares» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can you win without having enough victory conditions? rss

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Doug Orleans
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This has been asked here before, but I couldn't find an answer that sounded definitive (has anyone gotten an official answer from HSV or FFG?):

If you say "veni, vidi, vici" during a turn, but then by the end of the turn you no longer have enough victory conditions (because you lost the temporary favor of the gods and/or you spent too much denarii), what happens? If no one else has said "veni, vidi, vici", does the game continue, or do you win? If someone else has said it, but you have more points, who wins?

In my opinion, it makes more sense to say that you must continue to have enough victory conditions at the end of the turn to qualify for winning, and if no one does, the game continues. But I don't have a strong argument for why this is better, and I can't parse the English FFG rules as leaning one way or another either.
 
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Mik Svellov
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Saying "veni, vidi, vici" is not what triggers the end game. It is fulfilling the victory conditions.

The game ends at the end of the round during which a player fulfills the criteria. Even if that player no longer fulfills the criteria when the round has ended.

Official answer below.
 
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Doug Orleans
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Great Dane wrote:
Saying "veni, vidi, vici" is not what triggers the end game. It is fulfilling the victory conditions.


They are equivalent, no?

Quote:
The game ends at the end of the round during which a player fulfills the criteria. Even if that player no longer fulfills the criteria when the round has ended.


Since you've played with the designer, I'm guessing that was his intent. Do you know if this is explicit in the published German edition rules?
 
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Mik Svellov
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Okay, I have now received the final and official answer from the designer:

The rules are written in a way that can misunderstood.


The game will only end if a player fulfills the victory conditions at the end of a round.

So a player that fulfills the winning criteria during a round may feel proud - but he will only qualify for winning if he is still fulfilling the criteria at the end of the round. And the game game will continue until at least one player fulfills the winning conditions at the end of a round.
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Doug Orleans
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Thank you! I'm glad to have that cleared up, and I'm glad that it agrees with my intuition.
 
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Jeff Thornsen
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A follow-up question:

Who would receive the 2 VP bonus for "Ending the game" in the following scenario?

Assume a 2 player game with 4 victory conditions required.
1. Player A has 3/4 Conditions and only need a few more denari to satisfy
2. Player B has 3/4 Conditions and only needs a faction marker to satisfy
3. During Worker Placement, Player A collects denari, says "vini vidi vici" to trigger the end.
4. Later in the turn, Player A spends denari, losing the victory condition.
5. During Faction takeover, Player B gets his last faction marker and says "vini vidi vici"
6. Later in the turn, Player A re-gains enough denari to satisfy the victory conditions again.

Who gets the 2 VP bonus?

What about in the case where a player says "vini vidi vici", but at the end of the round nobody has satisfied the conditions? The game will continue one more turn but who will get the 2 VP bonus?
 
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Loc Nguyen
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1. Player A for initiating end game. If A doesn't regain the VC and there is a tie between B and C, then neither B nor C would get it.

2. I'd would believe the first person to say "veni, vidi, vici" the following round for triggering the real end game.
 
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Pasta Batman
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Da L0C wrote:
2. I'd would believe the first person to say "veni, vidi, vici" the following round for triggering the real end game.

If we are to take the rules literally, I would disagree. They say 'First Player to fulfill Victory Objectives', not 'First Player to fulfill Victory Objectives and hold on to them', nor 'First Player to fullfill Victory Objectives on the last round'. It's only 2 points, which seems like a fitting reward for being first, whenever that occurs.
 
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