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Subject: Ways to revert village tiles from Haunted status back to normal side? rss

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Paolo Robino
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I understand there are only two:

1 - spending a Yin-Yang token;
2 - using the Taoist Altar.

Is this correct?

Additional Q: in case 1, must the Taoist be on the haunted tile? I'd say yes, otherwise the Taoist Altar would be much less useful...
 
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Matthew M
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You are correct with the two ways to do it.

The Taoist does not need to be on the tile to un-haunt it using the Yin-Yang. Spending the Yin-Yang in this fashion is very costly, so using the Taoist Altar is a much better way to un-haunt a tile if available.

-MMM
 
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Luca Iennaco
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The Taoist Altar is by far the weakest tile, exactly because you may obtain the same effect (thanks to the Ying-Yang token) wherever you are, still doing your turn and (most important) without the hefty penalty of adding a ghost into play.

I suppose it may become decent at "Hell" difficulty level, since not having the Ying-Yang token at the start may force you to use the Altar at times, but still...
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Paolo Robino
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Ok, thank you!
 
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Matthew M
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
The Taoist Altar is by far the weakest tile, exactly because you may obtain the same effect (thanks to the Ying-Yang token) wherever you are, still doing your turn and (most important) without the hefty penalty of adding a ghost into play.


Still disagree. It's weak because you hope to not have haunted tiles, but it is far better to save the Yin Yang when you do need to unhaunt something, and drawing a ghost to do it is barely a penalty. Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.

-MMM
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Octavian wrote:
Luke the Flaming wrote:
The Taoist Altar is by far the weakest tile, exactly because you may obtain the same effect (thanks to the Ying-Yang token) wherever you are, still doing your turn and (most important) without the hefty penalty of adding a ghost into play.


Still disagree. It's weak because you hope to not have haunted tiles, but it is far better to save the Yin Yang when you do need to unhaunt something, and drawing a ghost to do it is barely a penalty. Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.

-MMM

Being overrun by ghosts is essentially how you lose.
Drawing them at a slower pace has no penalty. You do not need to draw them "faster" to get Wu-Feng (it is not as if your turns are limited).
And the Ying-Yang tokens are used and gained back several times per game, so it's perfectly viable to use them to un-hanut the occasional tile (you should not get too many tiles haunted in first place, in any case).
Nowadays, I routinely win at Nightmare level, and I do so without EVER using the Altar. Maybe it can be viable with some other strategies (I think each "GS puzzle", i.e. game of GS, may be solved in multiple ways, so maybe some of them have an use for the Altar), but in my opinion it is not worth the card it is printed upon.
Oh well, nice to see it gets some love elsewhere... meeple
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Michael Kefauver
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As said above, the moment that you take away your starting yin-yang(s) the altar becomes far more important, because it's the only way you can save yourself from a haunter loss. Especially useful when used WITH a yin-yang, as you can then un-haunt 2 tiles a turn. The yin-yang being able to use a tile as a free action without being there is very important. You can use it to get more tao tokens without leaving a heavilly-entrenched corner, or to get one token and a life in addition to fighting the ghost just summoned, or to stop a board of haunters from ruining your life while still fighting them, or as a way to use the sorcerer to nail a ghost that's stopping your power, or holding a die.
The Tao markers save you turns. It's just a matter of how badly you need those turns.
 
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Jeff W
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Octavian wrote:
Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.


I disagree. I hate drawing ghosts in the Tea House and at the Altar. One reason is that you don't have time to react to ghost.
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Matthew M
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junesen wrote:
Octavian wrote:
Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.


I disagree. I hate drawing ghosts in the Tea House and at the Altar. One reason is that you don't have time to react to ghost.


If there is a corner with only one ghost that the next player is intending to exorcise, I'd like to draw an extra ghost on my turn to increase the odds of giving him a reasonable chance at killing two.

If we are close to reaching the final Wu Feng and have the room on the boards we want to draw ghosts as quickly as possible. Once the Wu Feng is out all that matters is killing him...the other ghosts that were drawn can usually be ignored.

The Tea House in particular is a great space for the Blue Taoist that can do a double action. He can toggle between that and the Witch to come to a net profit of two Tao tokens while potentially killing more difficult ghosts in exchange for putting out weaker ones.

Drawing ghosts is not a bad thing.

-MMM
 
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Luca Iennaco
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Octavian wrote:
junesen wrote:
Octavian wrote:
Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.


I disagree. I hate drawing ghosts in the Tea House and at the Altar. One reason is that you don't have time to react to ghost.


If there is a corner with only one ghost that the next player is intending to exorcise, I'd like to draw an extra ghost on my turn to increase the odds of giving him a reasonable chance at killing two.

Sorry man, that's nonsense. Unless you've used the Guards and know what's coming out, it's far more likely to draw a ghost that you cannot place in that spece (so you've made your life harder).

Octavian wrote:
If we are close to reaching the final Wu Feng and have the room on the boards we want to draw ghosts as quickly as possible. Once the Wu Feng is out all that matters is killing him...the other ghosts that were drawn can usually be ignored.

"close to reaching the final Wu Feng" means a couple of turns on the whole game. It's not a "strategy" if it makes sense only in a very narrow subset of moments (not to mention that an overcrowded board is very bad news if your final Wu-Feng is the Howling Nightmare or the Uncatchable).

Octavian wrote:
The Tea House in particular is a great space for the Blue Taoist that can do a double action. He can toggle between that and the Witch to come to a net profit of two Tao tokens while potentially killing more difficult ghosts in exchange for putting out weaker ones.

Sure, Tea House isn't that bad (but "double Taoist" is stronger when dedicated to Buddhas than Tea+Witch).
I'm still convinced the Altar is worhtles, however (and we surely manage to win consistently without using it; but I wouldn't be surprised to hear of people winning despite using it... the game is varied enough to offer multiple paths to victory).

Octavian wrote:
Drawing ghosts is not a bad thing.

It's how you lose the game. Draw too many of them and you won't have the time to face enough of them to keep things under control.
That's way the Altar is so poor (and the Tea House is decent mostly because it can fuel the Witch). Well, that and having the same good half of the Altar (un-haunt a tile) without the bad part (via the Yin-Yang token).
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Matthew M
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Luke the Flaming wrote:
Octavian wrote:
junesen wrote:
Octavian wrote:
Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.


I disagree. I hate drawing ghosts in the Tea House and at the Altar. One reason is that you don't have time to react to ghost.


If there is a corner with only one ghost that the next player is intending to exorcise, I'd like to draw an extra ghost on my turn to increase the odds of giving him a reasonable chance at killing two.

Sorry man, that's nonsense. Unless you've used the Guards and know what's coming out, it's far more likely to draw a ghost that you cannot place in that spece (so you've made your life harder).


How is it nonsense? We have two shots to draw a ghost that can go there (my draw and his Yin phase) rather than one...that sounds like better odds to me.


Quote:
Octavian wrote:
If we are close to reaching the final Wu Feng and have the room on the boards we want to draw ghosts as quickly as possible. Once the Wu Feng is out all that matters is killing him...the other ghosts that were drawn can usually be ignored.

"close to reaching the final Wu Feng" means a couple of turns on the whole game. It's not a "strategy" if it makes sense only in a very narrow subset of moments (not to mention that an overcrowded board is very bad news if your final Wu-Feng is the Howling Nightmare or the Uncatchable).


Where have I used the word "strategy"...I said drawing ghosts can be desirable.

Howling Nightmare and Uncatchable can be problematic with full boards...so the above tactic only really benefits you around 80% of the time. And even when HN or U is the Wu Feng it's not an impossible situation.



Octavian wrote:
Drawing ghosts is not a bad thing.

It's how you lose the game. Draw too many of them and you won't have the time to face enough of them to keep things under control.
That's way the Altar is so poor (and the Tea House is decent mostly because it can fuel the Witch). Well, that and having the same good half of the Altar (un-haunt a tile) without the bad part (via the Yin-Yang token).[/q]

That's how you lose the game, and that's why you don't value the Altar. When playing on Nightmare (albeit on pre-production copies...though I don't see any major differences) we lost primarily from having three haunted tiles. Using the Yin-Yang to unhaunt a tile was only done in desperation because it doesn't regenerate the Yin-Yang use to do so. The Altar still wasn't the most used spot on the board, but calling it worthless just seems silly to me.

It sounds like this can be attributed to different playing styles considering how we differ in our perspectives of what the bigger threat is in terms of losing the game.

-MMM
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Luca Iennaco
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Octavian wrote:
Luke the Flaming wrote:
Octavian wrote:
junesen wrote:
Octavian wrote:
Often times I welcome drawing ghosts at a faster rate...you need to draw ghosts to get to the Wu Feng.


I disagree. I hate drawing ghosts in the Tea House and at the Altar. One reason is that you don't have time to react to ghost.


If there is a corner with only one ghost that the next player is intending to exorcise, I'd like to draw an extra ghost on my turn to increase the odds of giving him a reasonable chance at killing two.

Sorry man, that's nonsense. Unless you've used the Guards and know what's coming out, it's far more likely to draw a ghost that you cannot place in that spece (so you've made your life harder).


How is it nonsense? We have two shots to draw a ghost that can go there (my draw and his Yin phase) rather than one...that sounds like better odds to me.

If the second card (the extra one you wouldn't have drawn without using the Alter or Tea House) is exactly of the colour you need, you've done well. Otherwise, you've now one extra ghost (NOT where you'd have liked it). Even assuming that the disposition of the boards is such that black goes where you like, you've still only 40% of improvement and 60% of worsening things.


Octavian wrote:
It sounds like this can be attributed to different playing styles considering how we differ in our perspectives of what the bigger threat is in terms of losing the game.


I'm sure it's due to different playing styles.
As I wrote, I think this game can be won in multiple different ways (and lost, as well ). It wouldn't surprise me if we could both win the same exact game (i.e. city layout, deck of ghosts and die rolls) with a very different sequence of moves.
Have fun! meeple
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Tom Thingamagummy
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Thumbed, because I love a good Octavian strategy debate.

Lost a game yesterday due to the altar... it hit ghosts which drew more ghosts and we were overrun. We learned how valuable those Tao tokens really are! We were reluctant to use them. Of course, we were also unlucky.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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My goal is to use my Yin-Yang right before I kill a ghost that will allow me to regain the Yin-Yang immediately as a reward. I'd guess that I manage that at least 50% of the time when playing at Nightmare level. If any village tiles are haunted, I will nearly always use it restore them.

It is really unusual for me to use the Taoist Altar.
 
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