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Subject: Pre-Shock TQ Checks rss

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June Hwang Wah
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I would like to confirm if my understanding of TQ Checks are right. 9.21 lays down the cases where units are exempted from pre-shock TQ checks, presumably for both attackers and defenders as the case may be.

The question relates to para 9.23, which states that "All units with a Must Shock/Check TQ marker (and their intended targets) undergo a TQ check..."

Does this mean that if attacker have to undergo TQ Checks, their targets have to do so also, (or are they assessed separately according to 9.21?)

Similarly, if the attacker does not have to undergo pre-shock TQ Checks, does it mean that the defender is similarly exempted (e.g. routed units, teppo)?


Thanks!
 
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Nathaniel Edwards
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Travelers Rest
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This was also the most confusing part of the rules for me. The rules constantly say only that a unit must perform the pre-shock TQ check if it has a counter on it that says it must do so. It doesn't spend much time explaining when you should put a counter on them. I can't figure this one out, myself.
 
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Rodger Wilkershank
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Columbus
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I know these are old posts but I just started learning how to play and I have some thoughts on this.

It seems like there are two parts to the process. The first step seems to take place during the Movement step as units make their initial move into the ZOC with an intention to SHOCK attack. At this point the 'SHOCK MUST Check TQ' marker is place on both the attacker(s) and defender(s) regardless of what will happen in step two [per 9.14]. The second step seems to take place during the designation segment of Shock Combat step. At this point you examine units with the 'SHOCK MUST check TQ' marker and determine if this marker remains up or if it gets to be changed to the 'SHOCK NO Check TQ' side based off what's in 9.21.

The first few times reading the rules it sounded like all of this happened at the same time which was confusing. But splitting it up like this makes a little more sense to me because something could happen between the end of the unit's movement to the time shock begins.

I believe 9.23 just indicates if both attacker(s) and defender(s) need to make a shock check they do it at the same time so the results get applied to both side at the same time. If only one side needs to make the check their the only ones that need to role.

I might be way off though
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Merric Blackman
Australia
Waubra
Victoria
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During Movement...
Place "SHOCK/MUST CHECK TQ" markers on top of every shock-capable unit that moves adjacent to an enemy unit (and has that unit in their ZOC), even if just changing facing.

At the Start of Shock Combat...
Place "SHOCK/MUST CHECK TQ" markers on top of every disrupted unit that you choose to attack with.
Place "SHOCK/NO TQ CHECK" markers on top of every other unit that you choose to attack with.

Make Pre-Shock TQ rolls for any marked with SHOCK: MUST CHECK TQ
Do this for both attacker and defender, unless:
* the attacker doesn't roll if the defender is routed.
* engaged units don't roll, unless the defender is attacked by a new (non-engaged) unit
* defending units behind babo-saku don't roll
* units attacking under the Aggression rule [9.46] don't roll
* Kibamusha using Norikuzushi [9.3] don't roll (and the defending foot units must add 1 to the TQ roll)

All rolls are simultaneous

That seems to cover it from what I make of the rules.

Cheers,
Merric
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Christian Holmes
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Houston
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Thanks y'all! I have been wanting to play a scenario, but every time I set one up, it would stall at the Pre-shock checks.

I really wish Richard H. Berg or Mark Herman could come by and make this clear!

I think it really just needs an game example to be clear. I consider myself fairly intelligent, but trying to figure out this part of the rules makes me feel idiotic!! ESPECIALLY because it seems like it should be so easy (and probably is).

Thanks again, it is STARTING to fall in to place....
 
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June Hwang Wah
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Thanks, Merric and Roger.
 
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