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Subject: Small conundrum deciding on enemy unit action - - rss

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Chick Lewis
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Began a replay of mission 1 last night to teach my Dad the rules.

Had a German HMG appear in foxholes, on the next turn it pulled back to the woods behind, leaving an 'A' PC counter in the abandoned hex.

My scout squad moved into the foxholes and was fired upon by the HMG (which had meanwhile found cover) to no effect (very lucky). When the PC was resolved, it resulted in an German infiltration attempt (unsuccessful) so we had an exposed German squad also in the zone.

On the turn following that, the enemy HMG unit fit into ZERO of the possible states on the German action decision chart, since it COULD see my scout squad in the adjacent zone, but COULDN'T fire on it due to the German squad in the same zone. I didn't know what to have the HMG do.

I decided that it would 'do nothing'. What SHOULD I have done with the HMG?

Thanks in advance for any clarification.

Chick
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Ricky Gray
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That's what I would have done, Chick. Like you, I'd like to know for sure, though.

Ricky

 
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Chris Severs
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Wouldnt the HMG have fired on ur squad inthe now abandoned card, thus removing the PC marker?
 
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Chick Lewis
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New idea, I think Chris may have it right. Perhaps I should have removed the PC marker when my scouts were fired upon. PC resolution is after fire resolution. THANKS, Chris.

BUT my reading of the rules, from memory, says that PC removal is limited to zones fired THROUGH, and might not include zones fired INTO. By sending my scouts into the zone before being fired upon, I MAY have triggered the resolution of the PC before it would have been removed.

Interesting timing issue.

More insights?

Chick
 
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Drake Coker
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I'm pretty sure the HMG disappears in a puff of logic
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Doug Cooley
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chicklewis wrote:
New idea, I think Chris may have it right. Perhaps I should have removed the PC marker when my scouts were fired upon. PC resolution is after fire resolution. THANKS, Chris.

BUT my reading of the rules, from memory, says that PC removal is limited to zones fired THROUGH, and might not include zones fired INTO. By sending my scouts into the zone before being fired upon, I MAY have triggered the resolution of the PC before it would have been removed.

Interesting timing issue.

More insights?

Chick


The text is limited to the word "through" as you note. The question is what happens when the HMG moves. First, it stops generating a VoF when it moves as tripod mounted weapons don't generate VoF if they have an Exposed marker on them (ignore this sentence if it was moved without placing an Exposed marker). When it *can* generate a VoF (in the cleanup phase, when the Exposed marker is removed), it does so based on the criteria: Closest Enemy, Enemy generating the most VoF, then random. When the new PDF is placed as a result of the criteria, you will remove any PC markers in cards the PDF fires through. A PC in a card the PDF fires into, on the other hand, is not removed because ostensibly the enemy units are not between the HMG and the friendly units. The presence of friendly units in and of itself has no bearing in terms of the removal or retention of the PC marker.

[Edit: 6.1.1 also says that "A unit does NOT automatically engage an enemy unit on a card in LOS that contains both friendly and enemy units." Because of the confusing use of the terms enemy and friendly (sometimes it is an absolute term, sometimes it is relative), I'm not sure if this would refer to, say, only US units opening fire on German units or any unit and it's relative friends and enemies. If the latter, then I wonder if the rule would mean that the Germans would fire into a card containing both US and German units only if there was nothing else to fire into.]

However, we have an additional issue in that the HMG generates Grazing Fire, and so the VoF is generated through all cards along the PDF until the LOS is blocked. As such, if you had the HMG generating VoF in the adjacent card (with the scout and PC in your situation), then continued on into another card, the PC card would be removed because the fire went through the card in question.

gulp

I suspect that we will find that the word "through" was used in a vague context and may actually mean into or through by the time we get to a complete FAQ of this game.
 
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Chris Severs
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if thought logicaly it must mean thru or into.

"Gott in Himmel! Hans i cant shoot at the Amis 200 yards away coz there may be some of our guys a 100 yards away, but wait theres some Amis even closer to our men! Fire!!" laugh
 
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