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Eugene Zehner
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I'm a life long Detroit Lions fan. I've stuck with them through thick and thin. Mostly thin. There have been a few bright moments throughout the years - the occassional Thanksgiving (upset) win, Billy Sims, Barry Sanders, OJ running for five hundred yards (OK it was 273 and the Lions won) and what I thought were the most stylish uniforms of any NFL team. Now they're on the cusp of being the first 0-16 team in NFL history. "Sigh" I can remember when the Lions were good, you know, when they won five or six games in a season.

What does this have to do with RSP? I'm glad you asked. The Lions are a reflection of the city of Detroit. The ex-mayor of Detroit is in jail, the Detroit automakers are imploding, and unemployment is almost twice as high as the national average. Nothing can be done about corruption in politics, the auto industry is going to fail without some sort of drastic reconfiguration, and unemployment will always be around.

But that doesn't stop the Lions from taking the field and Detroit will bounce back because things can change. The next mayor may be no better than Kilpatrick but he'll be held more accountable, the Detroit automakers will have to rethink and retool their business practices, and with new technologies unemployment may recede.

Next year the Lions aren't going to win the Super Bowl but they're almost certainly going to be better and Detroit may still struggle but there's hope for a better future.

Take Care and Merry Christmas,

Gene Z
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J
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Two thumbs for your not being a Cowboys fan despite your team's losing ways.
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Jorge Montero
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I'll take Manhattan in a garbage bag. With Latin written on it that says "It's hard to give a shit these days"
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It's a pity you don't play the Rams, or at least you'd get one win. The only reason they are not 0-15 is a mid-year fluke.
 
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Ed Holzman
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As grey traces of dawn tinge the eastern sky, the three travellers, men of Willowdale, emerge from the forest's shadow. Fording the river, they turn south, journeying into the dark and forbidding lands of The Necromancer...
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OutpostGamma wrote:
the Detroit automakers will have to rethink and retool their business practices, and with new technologies unemployment may recede.

[sidebar]
News flash...the Detroit automakers will not be able to do much of anything unless the UAW is willing to make some major concessions. Getting paid for not working and continuing to draw benefits after you cease to be a useful and productive member of the company is not a recipe for success. Do these guys want a job that pays a lower, yet competitive wage or do they want no wages at all when their employer disappears? The legacy costs these employers face are burying them.

Once upon a time, there was a real need for labor unions because employers were left unchecked in their ability to exploit their employees. However, the success of non-organized labor in the employ of other manufacturers show that they are unnecessary and the changes in labor laws have made labor unions obsolete and a lead weight that will sink the companies that are forced to employ them.

Professional sport labor unions are only even more ridiculous.
[/sidebar]
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Justin Sytsma
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OutpostGamma wrote:


Next year the Lions aren't going to win the Super Bowl



Yea of little faith.

(I figured I would bring the R into this post)
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Justin Sytsma
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jarredscott78 wrote:
Two thumbs for your not being a Cowboys fan despite your team's losing ways.


We want the cowboys to lose since we have there first round draft pick. The worse they are the better off we are.
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nothing but static
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Bearcat89 wrote:
a load of baloney


No mention of the billions of dollars lost empire building.
Or failed predictions where the market was going.
Or failing to set aside funds to carry thorugh the lean years.

The manufacturing company I work for are currently going through
a retooling phase that started three years ago and will finish
next year, moving production from remote areas to areas close to
where they want markets to grow.

total cost something like 2 years turnover.
Notice they did this through a good patch, not anticipating
the sun will shine forever. This is the second time in 10
years they have taken a big hit to improve productivity.


The big three have been failed by poor leadership.
The UAW is there to get all it can, you think big oil
was crying a river when it was making money hand over
fist while other companies were losing money due to high oil
prices.


executive: I get a big salary because I am responsbile for the company doing well.

person: but the company is not doing so well.

executive: oh thats the workers fault.
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Ed Holzman
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muntmeister wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
a load of baloney


No mention of the billions of dollars lost empire building.
Or failed predictions where the market was going.
Or failing to set aside funds to carry thorugh the lean years.

The manufacturing company I work for are currently going through
a retooling phase that started three years ago and will finish
next year, moving production from remote areas to areas close to
where they want markets to grow.

total cost something like 2 years turnover.
Notice they did this through a good patch, not anticipating
the sun will shine forever. This is the second time in 10
years they have taken a big hit to improve productivity.


The big three have been failed by poor leadership.
The UAW is there to get all it can, you think big oil
was crying a river when it was making money hand over
fist while other companies were losing money due to high oil
prices.


executive: I get a big salary because I am responsbile for the company doing well.

person: but the company is not doing so well.

executive: oh thats the workers fault.

Oh, I will not argue that the executive leadership in the Big Three did not fail miserably, because they absolutely have. A complete and total lack of vision on their part has resulted in a huge inventory of product that nobody wants anymore and nothing on the drawing board that resembles any kind of forward thinking (with the possible exception of the Volt). They have been as greedy as the union workers and bled the cash cow dry until there is nothing left to bleed out of it. The whole "executive jet" debacle when they first came to Washington with their hats in their hands indicated that as clearly as anything else. They will have to commit to reform, too!

But the fact of the matter is, they can make all sorts of changes in management and engineering and it will not alter the fact that they still lose money on every vehicle they sell because of the excessive legacy costs associated with organized labor, And Ron Gettelfinger has indicated that the UAW would rather let the Big Three rot on the vine than make any kind of reasonable concessions.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081115/A...

Apparently, it's the government's job to make sure that they keep their fat union contracts intact (that means the money comes out of your pocket and my pocket). I'm already not too keen on President Bush's idea of "just throw money at them to keep them afloat until I get out of office". He's just kicking the can further down the road so somebody else has to deal with it.

Just how does Honda or Toyota manage to assemble their high quality vehicles on US soil using US workers without organized labor?

http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2007/04/state_of_auto...
 
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steve mizuno
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Commandex wrote:
OutpostGamma wrote:


Next year the Lions aren't going to win the Super Bowl



Yea of little faith.

(I figured I would bring the R into this post)


How about the S?

Maybe the Lions would do better if their coaching and training staff outlawed sex after Thursdays and before Sunday?
 
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Destiny's got her hand way, way up in their puppets! It's an unpleasant tingling! The deepest of wriggles!
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Commandex wrote:
jarredscott78 wrote:
Two thumbs for your not being a Cowboys fan despite your team's losing ways.


We want the cowboys to lose since we have there first round draft pick. The worse they are the better off we are.


Wanting the Cowboys to lose is the default position for all right-thinking people.
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Destiny's got her hand way, way up in their puppets! It's an unpleasant tingling! The deepest of wriggles!
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And in all fairness to the Lions, they beat Minnesota in their first game, but an utterly abominable officiating error gave the Vikings field position to kick a late field goal to win 12-10.
 
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David desJardins
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Bearcat89 wrote:
But the fact of the matter is, they can make all sorts of changes in management and engineering and it will not alter the fact that they still lose money on every vehicle they sell because of the excessive legacy costs associated with organized labor


This is just not true. The legacy costs are fixed costs, they don't vary with the number of vehicles produced. The companies can make money on each vehicle (i.e., the marginal cost of manufacturing the vehicle is less than they can sell it for), and yet the company as a whole is bankrupt because it can't make enough money to cover its fixed costs. Part of the eventual solution to that is going to have to be for the companies to declare bankruptcy and dump their legacy costs on the PBGC and the government. That's not fair to the taxpayers, and it's not fair to the employees (who will get less than what they were promised as part of their employment packages), but it's inevitable because the companies have promised far more than they can possibly deliver. But the overpromising by the companies (the willingness to incur high future costs that were unsustainable in order to create the illusion of profitability in the short term, then used as justification to pay themselves large bonuses) is the fault of management, not labor.

Quote:
And Ron Gettelfinger has indicated that the UAW would rather let the Big Three rot on the vine than make any kind of reasonable concessions.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081115/A...


Did you even read the article you linked to? It correctly points out that the unions have in fact already made large concessions. Exactly the opposite of what you say.
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Kenneth Bailey
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Everyone wants to point the finger at the Autoworkers yet they have made several concessions, even elimination of the "Jobs Bank" that folks seem to like to harp about. In fact, they are in the process of removing that, to where it's around 10,000 workers multiply that times their salary and you get close to what some Wall Street Banking executive makes. which is interesting since it sounds like 16 billion of our tax dollars are going towards bonuses for those same executives. But hey, let's kick the autoworker while he's down.

As for the Toyota and Honda workers in this country, those factories are much newer than the Big Three factories, so they haven't had a chance to get some of those legacy costs. And since those factories were mostly built in the 401(k) days, they wont have to. But I'm not blaming them.

As for the Lions, they pissed me off. My dad and I were gonna go to the Tampa Bay game and I had my Canon with a larger than 50mm lens. I didn't think to look up their restrictions on cameras because I haven't had a problem in other fields. Apparently they do and wouldn't let me in with the camera. My dad had already gone in and he had the keys. He couldn't come back out to give me the keys. So the Lions now join the ranks of the Cowboys in my books. After almost 20 years of watching them put a crap product on the field and rooting for them, that's my thanks. So they can kiss my rear. Not to mention the almost cop searching before going into the stadium. I know at least one more ticket they wont sell. But hey, I guess that's the luxury you get when you know that you aren't going to sell out the game.
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Andrew Rowse
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Why on Earth wouldn't the stadium let you take in a camera with a large lens?
 
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Kenneth Bailey
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KAndrw wrote:
Why on Earth wouldn't the stadium let you take in a camera with a large lens?

I think it is based on guidelines from the NFL. But looking at other NFL stadiums, there is a varying requirement. It's funny though because they were letting other cameras in and any modern camera has a zoom. If there is any kind of zoom, it would violate their policy because 2X is roughly equivalent to 75mm.
 
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Matthew M
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hibikir wrote:
It's a pity you don't play the Rams, or at least you'd get one win.


Only if Detroit was playing at home.

-MMM
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Jim C
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To further tie the sports/politics connection, Jennifer Granholm is the Matt Millen of state Governors.
 
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Jorge Montero
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Octavian wrote:
hibikir wrote:
It's a pity you don't play the Rams, or at least you'd get one win.


Only if Detroit was playing at home.

-MMM


Did you see the Rams lose to the freaking niners, all while having a +4 turnover differential for most of the game, and holding the ball for 38 minutes? All in front of a half-empty stadium, in which most locals spent most time cheering for Isaac Bruce?

The Rams can always find a way to lose. All across the season, except for the Rams two fluke games, we see that the Lions were a lot more competitive. The Rams have no receiver over 1000 yards. No rusher over 1000 yards, A rattled starting QB with a rating under 70, and that can't be trusted to get a drive going when the game is on the line.

At least the Lions are almost guaranteed to get better next year.

 
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