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Subject: WTF Comparing Video games with Board Games rss

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David Lessard
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I'm just pissed to wee how much people have to compare that.

There's an exemple from what we can read often

- Why the price of throught the age is so high for a bunch of card?

- Because for the game concept

- Yes but why I would that much when I can have a Starcraft for the same price with a lot more stuff.

- You are paying 60$ for a video game on DVD that cost .50c


OK...

First THERE IS NOTHING to be compared between video game and board games, they are 2 market completly diferent.

Second, Video games can cost as much as movie because of those new HD feature. I heard that games like Gears of War and Resistance have a developement cost close to 40 millions $ considering the engine developement.

Third video games are generating billion of revenu.

Board game are not generating as much, and the top seller are still Monopoly and those family games selling in Toy'S us. And why they are so cheap, because they are printing by millions of copies.

Games Like throught the ages, Galaxy truckers are printing by 5000 of copies, so they have to put an higher price to make some money from it.

And YES we are paying the concept, if the games cost 100$ and it's just a bunch of card, if the game is good and you play alot of time, where's the point? you're having fun? you're playing alot time? that all mather

Game from FFG have alot of figurine, but they are printing more copies... just look at the price of GMT games, almost all good games with a high price tag and no figurine.

it's only a question of offer and demand, so follow some economy class if you want to understand pricing in boardgame.

David
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I think I understood Grognads sillyness more than your post. That can't be good.

There is nothing wrong with comparing boardgames and video games, so long as it's done right. To think that there is no relation between the two would be silly.

I'm not sure who is questioning why boardgames cost a lot of money. I can understand why people, such as myself, are upset at the current retail price of Through the Ages, because it's a god damn joke.

Why talk about the cost of boardgames being determined by things other than their production costs and than list the price of a blank dvd as if to proclaim that video games are overpriced?

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Craig Somerton
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It's simply not worth getting that upset over.

Let them wallow in their ignorance.

We're the ones having the REAL fun, anyway.
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James Hamilton
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Companies that make boardgames are all money grubbing ^%"$%£"s

Actually having run a games company I can safely say that getting the shop price of a boardgame down is VERY hard.

In general shops expect roughly a 50% margin, distributors also take a margin, then there is shipping costs to consider.

From what is left of the retail price the producer has to actually make the game, obtain artwork and oh yes, designe, develop and test it.

One grumble we often got about Warfrog games was the lack of an insert or not having spare baggies in the game. The thing is that both of these items cost something and if you add about 15 cents to the production cost you end up adding about $1 to the retail.

The long and short of it is that specialist hobby games will always be a lot more expensive than the sum of their components. If you don't like it don't buy.
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Cesar Moreno
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Very well said Hammy. I have to agree with you there mate. arrrh
 
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Mike West
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Lezard wrote:
I'm just pissed to wee how much people have to compare that.

There's an exemple from what we can read often

- Why the price of throught the age is so high for a bunch of card?

- Because for the game concept

- Yes but why I would that much when I can have a Starcraft for the same price with a lot more stuff.

- You are paying 60$ for a video game on DVD that cost .50c


OK...

First THERE IS NOTHING to be compared between video game and board games, they are 2 market completly diferent.

Second, Video games can cost as much as movie because of those new HD feature. I heard that games like Gears of War and Resistance have a developement cost close to 40 millions $ considering the engine developement.

Third video games are generating billion of revenu.

Board game are not generating as much, and the top seller are still Monopoly and those family games selling in Toy'S us. And why they are so cheap, because they are printing by millions of copies.

Games Like throught the ages, Galaxy truckers are printing by 5000 of copies, so they have to put an higher price to make some money from it.

And YES we are paying the concept, if the games cost 100$ and it's just a bunch of card, if the game is good and you play alot of time, where's the point? you're having fun? you're playing alot time? that all mather

Game from FFG have alot of figurine, but they are printing more copies... just look at the price of GMT games, almost all good games with a high price tag and no figurine.

it's only a question of offer and demand, so follow some economy class if you want to understand pricing in boardgame.

David


(N.B. some of my figures for the board game market might be a little off, but they are an approximation)

Well, I've worked in the Video Games Industry for 13 and a half years and I've played boardgames for about 25 years so hopefully i can answer a few of your questions.

As an entertainment medium you CAN fairly compare 'some' video games vs board games. There are many turn based strategy games that play very similarly to boardgames, and there are actual board game and card game conversions that are also almost the same.

As far as price goes however, there is no point comparing them at all. Last year we finished working on Fable 2 and we had started working on it in 2006. That is over 2 years of hard work by a team of pretty well paid professionals. Now, that team varied in size from a measly 20 or so for the first 3-4 months up to around 120 at the end. That costs a LOT of money to make. Now add in marketing (also millions of pounds around the world) and it won't surprise you to know that to 'Break Even' we had to sell more than 1.5 million copies!

A console game costs £40 in the UK, and i think $60 in the US? Well, out of that, the developers/publishers only get £20 or $30, the rest goes to the retailer (Huge %), distributor (Small %) and manufacturer (Small %).

Now, 'developing' a boardgame costs a very small amount of money. It is a small team of people taking a year or so to take an initial idea through building a basic prototype and then onto playtesting. in this time it has cost a tiny % of the price to develop a video game.

However, when the board game is put into production it costs a LOT more than a video game to produce. Once a video game is complete, it costs a couple of dollars to make each copy, whereas it probably costs ten dollars to make each boardgame. Also remember that all artwork costs, and dies needed to punch all the boards, counters, rulebooks, boxes have to be made uniquely for the new board game and that a board game is much heavier/bulkier/less of a standard size than any video game.

Therefore where a AAA video game has to sell 2 million to make a good profit, a board game needs to sell 10k to do the same. This ends up meaning they usually cost the same as the customer base for a video game is hundreds of times larger than for a standard board game.

In short, your money for each game is approximately split as follows:

----------------Video Game--------Board Game
Development-----35%---------------10%
Manufacture-----5%----------------50%
Advertising-----15%---------------10%
Retail----------40%---------------20%
Distribution----5%----------------10%


One final thought... For every person complaining about the cost of a card/board game vs a video game, there are 1000 people complaining about the cost of a video game vs a DVD film costs even through their revenue stream is also completely different, so consider yourself lucky!

Mike..........

(P.S. You might want to spell check your posts as it got quite difficult to read your post at various points, ta!)

(P.P.S. How do you do neat tables in this blooming Forum software? )



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anomander64 wrote:
It's simply not worth getting that upset over.

Let them wallow in their ignorance.

We're the ones having the REAL fun, anyway.


Or you could just do both hobbies and have even more fun than either single hobby's gamers. That's what I do.
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Jae
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I might be crazy, but wasn't the comparison between Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization at $70 and StarCraft: The Board Game (FFG) also at $70ush?

I don't think the comparison was with the video game.

Check your sources and facts please.


//EDIT: clean up formatting.
 
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Gláucio Reis
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Lezard wrote:
Games Like throught the ages, Galaxy truckers are printing by 5000 of copies, so they have to put an higher price to make some money from it.

And so are hundreds of other boardgames that cost a lot less.

I haven't actually seen complaints relating boardgames and video games. That comparison is usually made by someone trying to justify the prices via "development costs", and I agree it is meaningless, as demonstrated by Mike West above.

However, whenever someone complains about the price of a particular boardgame, it is followed by the silly justification that "you are not paying for the contents, but instead for development, playtesting, etc." Well, that could be said of any other boardgame, so what is the point? If we are comparing the price of a boardgame to that of another boardgame, supposedly with a similar print run and a similar development cost, it obviously comes down to the components and the physical production.

And then there are always the pointless comments that the game is worth the price because it is great fun, or even worse, that if you think it is overpriced you have the option not to buy it.
 
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David Lessard
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i'm sorry about my english

it was late, and it's my second language.
 
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Marc Gibson
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Lezard wrote:

First THERE IS NOTHING to be compared between video game and board games, they are 2 market completly diferent.


There are comparisons that can be made. They're both games and the acquisition of both depend on the amount of disposable income at my, uh, disposal.

Quote:

Games Like throught the ages, Galaxy truckers are printing by 5000 of copies, so they have to put an higher price to make some money from it.


Just yesterday I commented to my wife about how much I liked Texas Glory and other games from Columbia Games even if they seemed a bit pricey for what actually comes in the box. I realize that it's in large part due to the fact that print runs are limited and I don't really mind. Just like I don't mind paying an large fee for a book that's got a very limited print run.

Quote:

And YES we are paying the concept, if the games cost 100$ and it's just a bunch of card, if the game is good and you play alot of time, where's the point? you're having fun? you're playing alot time? that all mather


The point is that $100 is a lot of money and my limited entertainment dollars might be better spent elsewhere. If I'm spending a lot of money on a board game then I expect it to come with all sorts of flashy components (Columbia Games has nice maps at least). My solution is to simply not buy games I don't think are worth it. The components, fun factor, replay value, etc. all combine into a complex algebraic formula I use to determine whether or not a game will be worth purchasing.

Marc
 
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Nicolas Boulo
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Hey

I'm not sure but I might be the cause of this outburst. blush

It seems I had the audacity to ask why Civilisation: Through the Ages was costing so much more than other boardgames.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/367064

The answers I got were:

People are willing to pay that much for it.
- Well OK, can't argue with that one.

FRED is setting the price artificially high
- Not sure if it's true but it was mentionned. Would be related to the previous reason, enough people are willing to pay that much to get it.

It's fun enough
- Fun is subjective & not a good way to price games. Does that mean I can go back to the store & ask for at least some of my money back if I don't have as much fun with it as I expected or pay them extra if I tought it would be bad & had a blast playing it?

It cost a lot of $$ to produce boardgames you know
- Well yeah... but isn't that true for all boardgames?

So unless a game company is implicated from start to finish in the developpement & production of the game, their investment is limited to buying the rights from the designer (fixed amount or royalties on units sold I would assume) & actually making the boardgame & maybe, in some cases, marketing & publicity.

But that's true for all boardgames, isn't it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a HUGE fan of CIV & CIV-like games, be it boardgames or videogames & I'm sure I would enjoy playing it a lot from what I hear about it, but just not at that price.

Just my opinion, not a dis on the game itself.

YMMV

Nick 'The Prophet'
 
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I believe Civilization 4 with all the expansions is on sale for under 30 bucks. Let's just put our money where the REAL deal is.

Me and my friends all have Civ 4 on our laptops and sometimes for boardgame nights we just bring the laptops and all play together at the table. It's a blast!
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Randy Gee
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How about when people compare Table RPGs to Computer RPGs?

For instance, what character is the tank?

or

Who has the grind the most to gain levels?
 
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wytefang wrote:
anomander64 wrote:
It's simply not worth getting that upset over.

Let them wallow in their ignorance.

We're the ones having the REAL fun, anyway.


Or you could just do both hobbies and have even more fun than either single hobby's gamers. That's what I do.


+1


 
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