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Subject: General question before I buy rss

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tom furman
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I love the fun theme and bits, but is it challenging when two adept adults play? Or is it a game with little thought where the best moves are horribly obvious?
 
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namrufmot wrote:
I love the fun theme and bits, but is it challenging when two adept adults play? Or is it a game with little thought where the best moves are horribly obvious?


This is a fun game, but for two adults it may not have much replay value. The games play quickly (almost as fast as the setup), and while there is some strategy I think this game is geared more towards an adult playing with kids....IMHO

I'd say the setup part is what turns me off when thinking about playing this...otherwise its not a bad game.

 
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Berthold Nüchter
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The game works well for adults, too. It is neither Chess nor Go, but it is deep enough for adult gamers. It has no luck element, so there is room for tactic, especially if you play with only two players. I think it is a strength of this game that it works well for 2 - 4 players, casual gamers, more serious gamers, adults and children.
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Russ Williams
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It's a variant of the game Amazons, which you can read about in some combinatorial game theory literature - certainly not a trivial game.

Coincidentally I played HTMF with another adult a few minutes just before reading your message. It was a good interesting game (and close, as I won by just 1 point), and certainly with many tough nonobvious decisions. Yet a couple days ago I also played it with some kids. It is indeed a good versatile game.
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Maybe I'm really turned off by the setup as it seems like it takes too long. Maybe if there was a grid to set the pieces in I'd like it better. I've only played this with my wife once and it went okay but we did not find anything thrilling. With the kids...its tough to play cut throat, so I probably do not put much thought into the game. Maybe if I played the game with a more serious opponent I would see a different game.
 
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tim
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piks wrote:
Maybe I'm really turned off by the setup as it seems like it takes too long. Maybe if there was a grid to set the pieces in I'd like it better. I've only played this with my wife once and it went okay but we did not find anything thrilling. With the kids...its tough to play cut throat, so I probably do not put much thought into the game. Maybe if I played the game with a more serious opponent I would see a different game.
If all the players pitch in and set up the grid it takes only a minute.
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Tim...lol..very true.....now I just need to get the kids to help.
 
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tim
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piks wrote:
Tim...lol..very true.....now I just need to get the kids to help.
Make it part of the game, my kids think its fun. It's not always very straight and is rarely the square it's supposed to be but we just play it how it lays.
 
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Randall Bart
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namrufmot wrote:
I love the fun theme and bits, but is it challenging when two adept adults play? Or is it a game with little thought where the best moves are horribly obvious?

This game is not what you think at all. It can be played by young kids, and they can have a lot of fun playing, but this is actually a hard nosed bowb your buddy game. The moves are far from obvious until most of the ice is broken up.

eightbit wrote:
It's not always very straight and is rarely the square it's supposed to be but we just play it how it lays.

As long as you can follow the hex "grid", you're fine. It's okay to be a little sloppy, and it's best to have a little space between the pieces so they are easy to pick up.
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piks wrote:
namrufmot wrote:
I love the fun theme and bits, but is it challenging when two adept adults play? Or is it a game with little thought where the best moves are horribly obvious?


This is a fun game, but for two adults it may not have much replay value. The games play quickly (almost as fast as the setup), and while there is some strategy I think this game is geared more towards an adult playing with kids....IMHO

I'd say the setup part is what turns me off when thinking about playing this...otherwise its not a bad game.



I respectfully disagree with everything you said, with the exception of the first 5 words!

In my opinion, this is a wonderfully small and simple, yet surprisingly strategic game that is best played with 2-4 strategically-minded, cutthroat adults. And I have never understood the whining about the set-up time - it takes just a minute or two.
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Ted Groth
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Barticus88 wrote:
As long as you can follow the hex "grid", you're fine. It's okay to be a little sloppy, and it's best to have a little space between the pieces so they are easy to pick up.
Yes, definitely leave a little space between the pieces, and don't be too picky about the spacing. I am amazed that people complain about the set up time for this one. It is just alternating rows of 7 & 8 randomly selected hexes, and it only takes a couple minutes tops if you do it yourself, one minute if anyone helps.

If you insist on everything being perfectly straight you can take all the time you want of course, but then that is your problem, don't complain about how long it takes! (If you MUST have them straight, just keep straightening the pieces as the game progresses. You can get it perfect by the time you are down to the last piece! )

I first played the game with my game group, against experienced gamers, and find it a decent challenge in that setting. For such a short game there is a lot there. When I introduced it to my niece and nephew, they tended toward making the obvious moves, rather than the best moves overall, but they are a little young at 6 & 8, and they enjoy the game too.
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piks wrote:
Maybe if there was a grid to set the pieces in I'd like it better.


User pdclose has created just such a thing!

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/file/info/25129

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squash wrote:
piks wrote:
namrufmot wrote:
I love the fun theme and bits, but is it challenging when two adept adults play? Or is it a game with little thought where the best moves are horribly obvious?


This is a fun game, but for two adults it may not have much replay value. The games play quickly (almost as fast as the setup), and while there is some strategy I think this game is geared more towards an adult playing with kids....IMHO

I'd say the setup part is what turns me off when thinking about playing this...otherwise its not a bad game.



I respectfully disagree with everything you said, with the exception of the first 5 words!

In my opinion, this is a wonderfully small and simple, yet surprisingly strategic game that is best played with 2-4 strategically-minded, cutthroat adults. And I have never understood the whining about the set-up time - it takes just a minute or two.



Okay...I will give it another shot this weekend and I will recruit my wife for some adult play. Maybe I'll end up putting my foot in my mouth which is okay. Like I said, I like the game and maybe I'm just missing something.


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Tony Chen
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The question you should be asking isn't whether it is challenging enough for adults, but whether it is too challenging, in the same sense that Chess and Go can be too challenging. Don't be fooled by the artwork and title, this is a deep game. Of course the game can be enjoyed in an elementary level, just as Chess can be enjoyed in an elementary level.

My review: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/267547
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Tomello Visello
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piks wrote:
This is a fun game, but for two adults it may not have much replay value.
It may be useful as what I teach people to call a "desert dessert game". There is challenge but I, myself, tire quickly.

 
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Claire
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drunkenKOALA wrote:
The question you should be asking isn't whether it is challenging enough for adults, but whether it is too challenging, in the same sense that Chess and Go can be too challenging. Don't be fooled by the artwork and title, this is a deep game. Of course the game can be enjoyed in an elementary level, just as Chess can be enjoyed in an elementary level.


Truthfully, I don't see that much similarity between HTMF and Chess or Go. The game mechanics are just too different and the play time too short for comparison. But I do agree that HTMF is definitely an excellent strategy game. There are plenty of ways to screw your opponent over. My brother and I get pretty cutthroat with this game when we're playing head-to-head.
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PrincessPeach wrote:
drunkenKOALA wrote:
The question you should be asking isn't whether it is challenging enough for adults, but whether it is too challenging, in the same sense that Chess and Go can be too challenging. Don't be fooled by the artwork and title, this is a deep game. Of course the game can be enjoyed in an elementary level, just as Chess can be enjoyed in an elementary level.


Truthfully, I don't see that much similarity between HTMF and Chess or Go. The game mechanics are just too different and the play time too short for comparison. But I do agree that HTMF is definitely an excellent strategy game. There are plenty of ways to screw your opponent over. My brother and I get pretty cutthroat with this game when we're playing head-to-head.

But you do see similarity between Chess and Go? Many Chess games last less than ten minutes. The game mechanics and play time are just as different between Chess and Go. Go is closer to HTMF than it is to Chess.
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Randall Bart
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TVis wrote:
It may be useful as what I teach people to call a "desert game". There is challenge but I, myself, tire quickly.

Hmmm. Vieleicht meinst du "dessert game"?
 
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Tomello Visello
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Barticus88 wrote:
TVis wrote:
It may be useful as what I teach people to call a "desert game". There is challenge but I, myself, tire quickly.

Hmmm. Vieleicht meinst du "dessert game"?
Sigh... Quite so.

 
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Claire
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drunkenKOALA wrote:
But you do see similarity between Chess and Go? Many Chess games last less than ten minutes. The game mechanics and play time are just as different between Chess and Go. Go is closer to HTMF than it is to Chess.


Um, I said "Chess OR Go," not "Chess AND Go". It doesn't really matter anyway, does it? My point was that HTMF doesn't play out like your typical strategy game, but it still has excellent strategic opportunities to make your opponent hate you.
 
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squash wrote:
piks wrote:
namrufmot wrote:
I love the fun theme and bits, but is it challenging when two adept adults play? Or is it a game with little thought where the best moves are horribly obvious?


This is a fun game, but for two adults it may not have much replay value. The games play quickly (almost as fast as the setup), and while there is some strategy I think this game is geared more towards an adult playing with kids....IMHO

I'd say the setup part is what turns me off when thinking about playing this...otherwise its not a bad game.



I respectfully disagree with everything you said, with the exception of the first 5 words!

In my opinion, this is a wonderfully small and simple, yet surprisingly strategic game that is best played with 2-4 strategically-minded, cutthroat adults. And I have never understood the whining about the set-up time - it takes just a minute or two.



So I've played this a few more times after my comments, and I'll retract the fact that it does not have much replay value. The game certainly does make you think about strategy much like chess and checkers. Having said that, its still not one of my favorite games and I'm not really sure why. I would not pass it off as a bad game its just not something that makes me say Wow!
 
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Erik van der Weide
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For most first players there's this aha moment when the first of the penguins is cut off from the rest of the rapidly diminishing board, especially if that penguin still has lots of fishes to gather (or none at all).
It's not about the fish.
Going for the "3 fish" tiles is in many cases not the best move. Instead, focus on blocking your opponents. Cutthroat then suddenly becomes a very apt word.
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